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Chris
Hello and welcome to the ending body Burnout show. We are your host, Chris and Filly, co-founders of a multi winning functional medicine practice serving busy people with energy, mood and gut issues.
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Filly
Well, business, addictive doing, people pleasing and perfectionism might be the norm. It's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
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Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic root root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplements hoping something might stick.
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Filly
So get ready to heal your body. Get your spark back deeply, connect with yourself, and step into the life of your dreams.
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Chris
Let's dive in.
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Chris
Gidday guys, and welcome to this episode of The Body Burnout Show. You and I are going to have a conversation with you, and maybe we'll have a conversation together as well about something that's it's quite popular in our world in.
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Filly
Calories, the right way to say maybe.
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Chris
Not popular, but.
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Filly
The headlines, it's.
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Chris
Made headlines. This is a controversial one. And and there's a little bit of confusion, controversy and confusion, especially in our client circles and our professional circles as well.
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Filly
Our industry.
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Chris
And our, yeah, our industry, head, you know, the, the, the governing body, if you will. So anyway, we're going to have a conversation today about dig, dig, dig, dig, dig.
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Filly
Vitamin B toxicity. Should you be concerned?
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Chris
Yeah.
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Filly
All right. Shall we dive.
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Chris
In? Let's dive in.
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Filly
So I remember back when I started studying clinical nutrition and later on, functional nutrition. Sorry, functional medicine thanks to nutrition.
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Chris
What did you do?
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Filly
It's the same thing. When I first started studying it, they talked about the Hippocratic Path, which is first, do no harm.
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Chris
Hippocratic. The Hippocratic oath.
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Filly
Yeah, yeah. And essentially all of the students took this. So, you know, we had to do assignments around it. So by doing the assignments, we had a good understanding around what it meant by first, do no harm when it comes to healing and health and natural medicine. And apparently even some medical schools also, look into this topic as well, which is really cool.
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Filly
So we all have like, I even feel like sometimes we'll have clients or people talking to us who might be all into the natural medicine. They poo poo the medical system. But honestly, even JP's medical specialists like I don't. I really don't think that there are many people who would get into the healing, world without having the best interest of the patient in their mind.
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Filly
You know, from an intention point of view. So this is what the Hippocratic Oath is. First, do no harm. So we always want to make sure that whatever we prescribe to, our people and by our way, when I'm talking about we, I'm talking just collectively healers, practitioners, doctors in general, even like psychologists first do no harm. So I'm mentioning this oath at the start of this topic because, as Chris said, it is quite controversial.
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Filly
It's made the headline in the news kind of in the last six months, actually. I think it first started popping up earlier this year around vitamin B toxicity. I think it was ABC, the 730 report or something. And then from there, there's been a lot of, more media around it as well as a lawsuit, trying to basically sue a company, a retail company that sells vitamin B6 in high amounts.
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Filly
So it's it's let's just say if you haven't if this is the first time you've heard of it, listening to this episode, I'm curious where you are. You probably just someone who doesn't listen to the news, which is actually really healthy for your mental health as well.
00:04:14:21 - 00:04:31:11
Chris
But again, in in the day and age of cookies and curated content, some, some of this stuff just might not have popped up into your awareness field, into your feed, just because it just isn't important to the advertisers to have you be advertised. All this stuff so you don't.
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Filly
Yeah, people.
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Chris
Listening to our podcast might not know about this.
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Filly
Yeah, yeah yeah. And so so we want to dig into this topic. Like it is a serious condition. We don't want to poo poo. It's like, you know, there's no such thing as vitamin B6 toxicity, and it's totally safe to take supplements. It's actually like there are people. And this is why it's got a lot of media attention, because there are people coming forth that have had, some significant impacts with using vitamin B6 at high amounts for too long, and it's damaged their nerves.
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Filly
So it is a real condition. But we also want to cut through the fearmongering headlines about B6 toxicity. To give you a balance, is science based or backed? The truth of it for you, if you're someone who is on a healing journey, who might be taking supplements, and we're always big on cutting through the feed because morphia is only ever going to be harmful.
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Filly
So if you have come across the vitamin B6 toxicity, controversy, then you might be someone who is too scared to take anything to, whether it's vitamin B6 or something else, because it's like, oh my gosh, is this going to make me even more sicker? Or you might be someone who is like, well, I'm taking this, I can do this.
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Filly
Okay? And so I wherever you are, we hope at the end of this episode, there's actually going to be a lot less fear around this and just some really good understanding, awareness and different ways that you can approach your healing journey in a safe way.
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Chris
So.
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Filly
Okay, so first of all, we'll just take in to, vitamin not vital. Yeah. Vitamin B6, first of all, because it's a really, really important nutrient in the body. And what is it? Yeah.
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Chris
So tell me what. Tell me what it is.
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Filly
Tell you. Okay. So as, all nutrients in our body, B6 is essential. So some of the body systems that I think about that are really supported by vitamin B6 is your nervous system, your neurotransmitters. So that's your brain and your energy metabolism. So if you think about it, in this go five body burn out energy, mood, gut issues, people are often in fight, flight, freeze, dopamine levels are depleted.
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Filly
They're in adrenal fatigue. Vitamin B6 is really important for all of these body systems that often get burnt out. When you have been under a lot of chronic stress. So it's really important, bees in general. So every cell in the body is made up of proteins, fats and vitamin B's. Bind them. These cells together. So not just basics but all BS is so incredibly important.
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Chris
Why do they call it BS and is it for binding B for binding?
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Filly
I actually don't know. It's really good.
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Chris
B for beta.
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Filly
So maybe when I get off on a tangent you can Google it and we can come back to that question.
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Chris
Of course I won't do that right this moment.
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Filly
I mean like essentially there's vitamin A, b c d e f. I don't think that they stand for anything in particular. That's just essential vitamins. So, so common deficiencies. If you're someone who is low in vitamin B6, then you might find that some of these body, systems aren't functioning very well. And symptomatically, that often shows up as fatigue, brain fog, nerve issues, mood changes, depression, anxiety, sleep issues, hormonal imbalances.
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Filly
I've seen it clinically. People's symptoms improved dramatically when they have used vitamin B6 based on what? Because of lab testing. So they knew. We knew that there they were lowing it. I remember one lady had, I don't know, I was probably like 40 years of insomnia, 40 years of not being able to sleep. And she also had anxiety and not that and nutrition a supplement these guys is going to be the magic bullet that solves everything.
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Filly
But for her, it made a significant improvement. Like literally within a week she was sleeping better, have mood, was improving. So again, don't be scared of using it if you need it. But also test to make sure that you do need it and we'll get into that very shortly.
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Chris
Yeah. Like because because it's the, the person on the, on the news was self-talk, self diagnosing, self supplementing based on advertising. Yes. Was the big was the big thing that happened.
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Filly
Well we'll go to that in a second.
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Chris
But stay tuned. We'll go into that very soon okay.
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Filly
So vitamin B6 as I said before, it's super important for people who are healing from body burn out and chronic stress if it's needed. So G, I don't know. I'm thinking about our clients and not just our current clients, but in the decade long of doing this functional medicine work and lab testing, 95% of people are deficient in it.
00:09:37:14 - 00:10:06:18
Filly
You know what? I can't even think of a lab test where I have said to a client, wow, your vitamin B6 levels are amazing. They're almost always depleted. And that's because stress, chronic stress burns through vitamin B6 and other BS and vitamins and minerals. Sorry, many people do need more of it. And often many people need higher amounts than the healthy, balanced population.
00:10:06:19 - 00:10:35:18
Filly
So I mentioned that because in the news as well, it's like, well, like the idea, I said the recommended dietary intake of vitamin B6 is only two milligrams. So you should be able to get that from food. Now you would like, if you have a very you'd be getting two milligrams of vitamin B6 from your food. But if you're someone who's really deficient and this is a question that a lot of clients have, when we do live testing and we look at nutritional deficiencies, they're like, oh, am I not eating enough of the foods?
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Filly
I'm like, you're eating enough. It's just that there's all these other reasons why you're burning through that nutrient. So two milligrams is teeny tiny. Sometimes you might find two milligrams of vitamin B6 and say a multi vitamin, but when we're using it in therapeutic levels to because there's a deficiency there that's also affecting the brain's ability to produce neurotransmitters and your nervous system to function properly in your mitochondria to produce energy, two milligrams is not going to move the needle at all.
00:11:07:19 - 00:11:44:19
Filly
So anyway, the bottom line of this first section of our episode is that vitamin B6 and therapeutic dosages definitely has a place in nutritional therapy, and it can actually change lives. Okay. So let's look at like what's there, the real story behind the headlines. So if you're kind of just like cutting through the the feed really like I mean the goal of a news report, when the, when they have something controversial or something kind of fee based or scary or it's like alarming is how can I make this go viral?
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Chris
How can I sell more content? How can I get more ads?
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Filly
And like. Yeah. And the benefit of this, like, I'm actually I'm not I'm not Pooh poohing that this has come to the surface because actually, the more people, you know, aware of this, the better. Because so here's the thing. Interestingly, vitamin B6 toxicity shows up as very similar symptoms to having a vitamin B6 deficiency. So, a toxicity might show up is, fatigue, mood imbalances.
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Filly
But the most concerning one is nerve damage. And this is the one that has made the headlines. So nerve damage from a symptomatic point of view could show up as tingling, burning, numbness, muscle weakness, almost like, you know, you're walking. And it's just like, oh, gee, I feel like my whole body is led. And this is concerning because, if if someone is taking a lot of vitamin B6 and they develop it toxicity over time, most of the time you can stop that supplement and these symptoms just disappear.
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Filly
But if it's been chronic use, then sometimes and and this is where the lawsuits are coming out is it can cause, long term damage. So so there are some people and this is where my heart goes out to those who have who are experiencing B6 toxicity. And it hasn't alleviated just from stopping the supplement. Is that. Yeah.
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Filly
Like their symptoms remain because the nerves have become damaged. Now in terms of how how common is toxicity, it's actually really rare. It's actually extremely rare according to industry data. So for every, 500,000 people who take vitamin B6, there is a one wanting 500,000 reaction. Right? So it is quite rare. I mean, it's still still can happen.
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Filly
So you want to be aware.
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Chris
So it's not as scary as a Covid vaccine,
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Filly
Yes. Do we need to edit that bit out? No. We'll keep it.
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Chris
No way.
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Filly
Thanks.
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Chris
Pfizer. I'll see you later, buddy.
00:13:58:04 - 00:14:23:19
Filly
Yeah. Okay, so this is 1 in 500,000, and most cases involve very high dosages. So taking over 100, like even over 200mg a day of vitamin B6. And here's the little kicker is that most of these cases we're taking the inactive form of vitamin B6. Now I'm going to talk about that more in a moment because that's really important.
00:14:23:19 - 00:14:29:19
Filly
And most of these cases were also taking it long term without supervision.
00:14:29:21 - 00:14:36:17
Chris
As in they go to Woollies or I buy a packet, based on the advertising and the words on the bottle.
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Filly
Yes. Yeah, exactly. And this is, this is, why the I mention the lawsuit? Look, I mean, if you just do a Google, it's on Blackmores, so I'm not I'm not being defamation. What's that word defaming around that? Because, you can readily buy a black because vitamin B6 and one tablet is 100mg, which is actually a lot, for a retail brand that you can just go buy from the Chemist or Woolworths and I don't know, it's like $16 or something per bottle.
00:15:10:00 - 00:15:29:09
Filly
So it's like cheap to so people like, yeah, okay, I will I have all these symptoms. I've googled it. I think I have a vitamin B6, deficiency. Okay. I take this stuff. So this is why, I mean, you've heard us. For those who have listened to Apple cost a lot test. Don't guess. That's like one of our models.
00:15:29:09 - 00:16:07:22
Filly
Motto is, when it comes to ending your body burn out is test, not guess. So this approach will prevent these issues happening full stop. So as I said before, the benefit of this media attention is that the TGA. So the Therapeutic Goods Act is now reviewing who can sell and prescribe these supplements to protect consumers, because self dosing at 100mg, 200mg a day of and inactive form, is actually unsafe if you don't know if you actually need it.
00:16:08:00 - 00:16:32:09
Filly
And it's not just basics like I think this is bringing up, just, bringing up conversation around other types of supplements, other types of medications that can also cause severe side effects. So there's a lot of information now that, you know, vitamin D, if you take too much of that, you can develop a toxicity. Same with selenium.
00:16:32:10 - 00:16:33:09
Filly
Same with seeing.
00:16:33:09 - 00:16:34:07
Chris
Same with water.
00:16:34:08 - 00:16:57:09
Filly
Same piece of water. And there's also a whole heap of pharmaceutical medication as well that can cause severe side effects. So I don't think we should demonise vitamin B6 that currently this is this is a thing that's in the news at the moment and really is just opening up an opportunity for us to have a conversation today around like, how can we how can we do this safely?
00:16:57:09 - 00:16:59:06
Filly
How can we do these healing things safely?
00:16:59:06 - 00:17:24:12
Chris
If we get an email, or two or a flurry of emails from, from clients and, and community people in our, in our circle saying things like, you're probably aware of this or you're probably across this already. And then dot, dot, dot does that vitamin B6 like that's happened a few times. And so we're like okay podcast, podcast topic.
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Filly
Yeah. Even even people who aren't clients like, any family member is like, did you know about this?
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Chris
Yes.
00:17:33:00 - 00:17:39:19
Filly
And I'm like, yes, thank you. Lovely. So I do.
00:17:39:21 - 00:18:14:18
Filly
I'm like, let's do a focus episode on this. Yeah. Okay. So ATM's so Australian traditional medicine society. So they wanted the main industry boards in Australia. Thing pretty much like governs natural medicine to make sure that we're doing things safely for the patients, for the consumers. And, I have an accreditation with ATMs. So I, as being a practitioner, this accreditation means that I have to keep up with all of this stuff so that I can help our clients in a really supportive and safe way.
00:18:14:20 - 00:18:41:17
Filly
And I love ATMs. Is proposed all around there. Changes with vitamin B6. So because there is talk, that TGA might pull vitamin B6 off the counters completely, which means that only GP's can prescribe it, which is a little bit crazy. Because there's a lot of people that need it, and GP's aren't being taught how to prescribe nutrients either.
00:18:41:17 - 00:18:51:11
Filly
So this is kind of like the expertise of a clinical nutritionist, nutritional medicine practitioner as function medicine practitioners, naturopaths. This is our jam.
00:18:51:13 - 00:18:52:01
Chris
00:18:52:03 - 00:19:17:03
Filly
And so ATMs have put forward a proposal that, if vitamin B6 levels, sorry, supplements are being sold, they must be below 50mg in order for a retail company to sell it so that if you go to a supermarket or a chemist or a health food store, you're not getting, you know, buying a supplement that's going to be in large therapeutic dosages.
00:19:17:05 - 00:19:41:15
Filly
And if it is prescribed in higher dosages then or like there's a formula, a supplement in higher dosages, it must be practitioner only. Which then means that only practitioners can prescribe it to a client based on based on a therapeutic relationship with that client. So I, I like that I agree, I agree with everything that they have said.
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Chris
00:19:43:18 - 00:20:08:23
Filly
Okay. Now I mentioned before I use the term inactive form. And this is really important to note as well, not just for vitamin B6 fit for really like many other nutrients that you can purchase. And there's a big difference between purchasing retail products versus practitioner products. So the practitioner products are always going to be more bioavailable. They're going to be often in an active form.
00:20:09:01 - 00:20:11:22
Chris
What's what's bioavailable and active form.
00:20:12:03 - 00:20:49:22
Filly
Yeah. Okay. Well I'll give you I'll talk about this in context of basics. Sorry. So an inactive form of vitamin B6, if you were to buy a supplement and in the ingredients it says, paradox on that is an inactive form of basics, an active form of B6. Like the abbreviation is P5P. And so what this means is when you take an inactive form of vitamin B6, your body then has to process it and turn it into an active form for your cells to then use.
00:20:50:00 - 00:21:15:07
Filly
So inactive. Now a healthy body should be able to do that. But when we're dealing with therapeutic dosages of supplements, often there is a body that is quite depleted, it's quite hypersensitive and hyper vigilant, and it's likely, it will likely struggle to convert an inactive supplement into an active form. And so that means then does that answer your question?
00:21:15:07 - 00:21:15:22
Filly
Do you get that?
00:21:15:22 - 00:21:18:07
Chris
Yeah, I think so.
00:21:18:08 - 00:21:29:19
Filly
So semi semi it's just a form I mean like an active form is going to be more expensive to produce. So if a supplement company is like oh I want to get some.
00:21:29:21 - 00:21:32:03
Chris
Can you give it to me in like basketball terms.
00:21:32:03 - 00:21:33:22
Filly
Oh how do I give it to you in basketball.
00:21:34:01 - 00:21:37:12
Chris
You can you give it to me in like,
00:21:37:13 - 00:21:39:21
Filly
There's I can give you some other examples.
00:21:39:22 - 00:21:41:02
Chris
Food terms.
00:21:41:04 - 00:21:49:00
Filly
Like, food terms. I'm just thinking about, like your brain. Now, this might be helpful.
00:21:49:00 - 00:21:53:17
Chris
It's like real. It's like real food. That. But not, like, artificial.
00:21:53:19 - 00:21:58:21
Filly
So. So there's another folate is another vitamin B and this is a common one.
00:21:58:22 - 00:21:59:23
Chris
B9.
00:22:00:01 - 00:22:00:07
Filly
Yeah.
00:22:00:08 - 00:22:01:08
Chris
And I just googled it.
00:22:01:08 - 00:22:24:18
Filly
This is kicking it. And this is a common one that's again sold in inactive or active form. Yeah. So in inactive form I hope I don't stuff this up while I'm on the spot. Amazing. Folic acid and sorry that's an inactive and active form is filling in filling acid or folate or there's like folate methyl something or other.
00:22:24:20 - 00:22:40:06
Filly
And. And so essentially I mean, I don't know how the supplement, rock I don't know how the like in a factory how they're doing that, but basically it's just easier for the body to absorb into the cells.
00:22:40:11 - 00:22:40:21
Chris
Okay.
00:22:40:21 - 00:22:47:02
Filly
Because the body doesn't need to convert it into a biological form. Yeah, yeah. That then is sent to the cells.
00:22:47:04 - 00:22:48:21
Chris
Yeah. So, I just it's.
00:22:48:21 - 00:22:51:23
Filly
Cheap, cheaper to make an inactive versus inactive form.
00:22:51:23 - 00:22:52:20
Chris
Yeah. Right.
00:22:52:22 - 00:22:55:13
Filly
It's cheaper to buy an inactive versus inactive form.
00:22:55:16 - 00:22:57:07
Chris
Yeah. That makes sense.
00:22:57:09 - 00:23:25:15
Filly
So therefore it's like inactive supplements. You know, like you can go to the supermarket, and buy oh what's another good magnesium. But this is, this is just different types of magnesium. So you can get magnesium oxide which is not very bioavailable. So it doesn't absorb into your through your gut lining and into your bloodstream and into your cells very effectively.
00:23:25:15 - 00:23:49:13
Filly
It's a great laxative. It's kind of all it is versus something like magnesium glass, an eight, which is a really absorbable form of magnesium. Now, if you had those two sitting in the supermarket, the magnesium oxide for like an inactive supplement is going to be, I don't know, ten bucks or something versus 30, 40, $50, right?
00:23:49:14 - 00:24:08:16
Filly
Yeah. So I think it's just like a market thing. It's like, hey, I'm a retail brand. I want to like, sell as much as I can at mass. People can get these at any point in time. They don't need to pay a practitioner to get it. Here you go. Cheapest form available, even if it's not going to move the needle much, because you kind of end up paying out the inactive form.
00:24:08:18 - 00:24:27:14
Filly
Now what? Why? This is an issue, why this is an issue from a therapeutic point of view. And an inactive form isn't going to be as therapeutic as an active form, especially if the body isn't able to convert it into the active form to use it. So there's that saying, like, aren't aren't supplements a waste of money?
00:24:27:14 - 00:24:54:09
Filly
Don't you just pay them all out? It's like, yeah, you kind of do. If it's inactive. But what's more concerning in terms of this context of this conversation today is an inactive form of B6 is what, intensive the research has been shown to cause the toxicity now that the active form can too. Like I'm not saying that that's that's a fast and hard rule.
00:24:54:09 - 00:25:19:12
Filly
But in terms of like the research, it's the inactive form that he's showing up in more of these cases of B6 toxicity. And that's because your there B6, the inactive form bottlenecks in your body. So your body can only convert so much of it into the active P5 form. And so therefore the inactive B6 just kind of like circulates in your bloodstream.
00:25:19:12 - 00:25:28:21
Filly
And it's not going into the cell. So it's not being used up. And over time it's increasing in your body to cause that toxicity, which is very interesting.
00:25:28:23 - 00:25:51:14
Chris
Yeah. There's a lot of science that, that sometimes, goes over my head, but, but I think as long as you know what you're talking about and, and we, we run by the. Well, do you need it? Yes. How do you know? We just did a lab test right. Show me. Here's a picture. Got it. And then.
00:25:51:14 - 00:26:10:05
Chris
And then we we do the do the protocol based on the on the lab test. I think that for cavemen like me, that that works. But you go into to Woollies and you and you try and save a couple of bucks. Note to self, it's not optimal. Can't be dangerous.
00:26:10:06 - 00:26:35:15
Filly
Yeah, yeah. And just to give you an example, too. So, like a rate, like I mentioned, the Blackmores basics has 100mg. Probably won't for very long. 100mg of peri peri dioxane versus, I was actually just in my clinic the other day and I'm like, oh, I'm just curious. You know, I was creating these notes for this podcast and I just put out our in labs.
00:26:35:15 - 00:27:02:13
Filly
So that's a practitioner only brand that we use among others. And there's one that just has basics in it. And it has 37.5mg of P5 pace of the active form. So if you compare that 100mg of the inactive basics versus 37.5mg of the active basics, which one's going to be safer and which one is also going to be more effective at lower dosages?
00:27:02:15 - 00:27:06:20
Chris
Yeah. Understand?
00:27:06:22 - 00:27:10:17
Filly
Understood. There you go. I gave you a caveman. Yeah, exactly.
00:27:10:21 - 00:27:12:17
Chris
That's much better. I like that.
00:27:12:19 - 00:27:36:14
Filly
Okay, so Chris touched on this bit, but how do we how can we use basics safely in practice? So as we said before, in our functional medicine approach is test not guess. So let's actually see where your levels are at. Not just with basics, but with everything else that might be contributing to how you're feeling and we assess this through testing.
00:27:36:16 - 00:27:58:19
Filly
Often that's through urine. But we can also do blood tests. And then that's going to tell us, do you actually even need vitamin B6? Is this part of your clinical picture or is your B6 levels okay. We don't need to go there. Let's look at somewhere else. And I mean, I personally haven't seen this clinically. And I've run thousands of lab tests.
00:27:58:19 - 00:28:26:14
Filly
I've never seen B6 too high. So and not to say that it isn't in some people, but that could also be the benefit of testing before you even started as well, that it's like, hey, you've got some basics. Deficiency symptoms. What? Let's maybe just see if there's toxicity first. Is it deficient? Is it toxic or are you symptoms coming from some other body system or some from some other, place in yourself?
00:28:26:16 - 00:28:49:21
Filly
And then we would individualise dosing based on your unique needs and your health status. So this is also where I love the lab testing because if you're like super depleted then there's room to move from a therapeutic dose. If it's kind of like oh yeah, it's low, but it's not super low. It's kind of borderline. It's like, okay, you could definitely do with some more basics, but we'll just be conservative with our approach here.
00:28:49:21 - 00:29:16:04
Filly
We don't need to do mega dosages. I also take into consideration like people's nervous systems as well. So people who, have had experiences in the past where they've had a lot of side effects to, supplements or medication, that doesn't mean they have a toxicity. It just means that their body, is overstimulated already. And when you put something therapeutic in, it can cause a side effects.
00:29:16:04 - 00:29:42:09
Filly
So if you do have side effects on B6 or other supplements, it doesn't mean that you have a toxicity. There might be something else going on. You might be overwhelming the liver a bit, or your nervous system might be super hypersensitive. And this is where it's really useful to have a practitioner in your corner to work out what's going on and how to adjust your treatment program so that you can get the best results.
00:29:42:11 - 00:30:10:22
Filly
Monitoring and adjusting is really important as well. And this is why follow up consults are really important, especially if you are having side effects. Or if you're not responding to things, then it's like, well, it's no use going keeping on with that basics for like two years because your bloods or your urine said, it's kind of like we've got so many other data points that we can work with, and we can chop and change as needed.
00:30:11:00 - 00:30:33:22
Filly
And my thought to like when we're using therapeutic supplements from a safety and an effectivity point of view, is that supplements really should be short term. If you're on a bunch of supplements. And I was actually talking to a client recently, a new client, and she was on a lot of stuff and I'm like, oh, okay.
00:30:33:22 - 00:30:57:02
Filly
And she's like, I, my doctor recommended it. I'm like, oh, okay. And she's like, yeah, she's an integrative doctor. Blah blah blah, blah blah. But the treatment plan hadn't been reviewed for a long time. And this isn't like there's no pointing fingers here. It's just a story. The point of the story is I then asked her, how long have you been on these for?
00:30:57:02 - 00:31:23:00
Filly
And she's like, oh, I can't even remember, I reckon years, right. And so that's always that's always a warning signal that the benefit of what you would have received from those supplements, you would have received them already. So if you're on something for a really long time, then it's not what you need anymore. You might have got the benefit initially.
00:31:23:02 - 00:31:48:19
Filly
But there might be deeper issues going on, both at a body systems level elsewhere and almost always deeper root cause, metaphysical issues as to why your body's burning through nutrients and body systems in the first place. So that's, I guess, just a little, little thing for you to think about, too, if you are someone who has been on, I don't know if supplement protocol for a really long time.
00:31:48:19 - 00:32:09:08
Filly
And it's like, I mean, like, I think it's helping, but I don't really know. But I mean, it's also been a really long time since I've been off it. It's like, just go off it and see how you go and if the symptoms are still there or if they come back, then it's time to look somewhere else. Don't keep flogging the same horse over and over again.
00:32:09:10 - 00:32:39:07
Filly
If you're not getting where you want to be. Retesting can be really important as well from a toxicity point of view. So if I do feel like someone needs to, continue a protocol for longer than what I would usually recommend, especially if we're dealing with nutrients that isn't ideal to take long term. From a safety point of view, I'll always advise retesting first.
00:32:39:09 - 00:32:53:15
Filly
And this would be really important for people who might be slower healing cases where we've had a bit of touch and go with, sustaining a protocol.
00:32:53:16 - 00:32:59:21
Filly
Okay. Any questions? Chris, are you could.
00:32:59:23 - 00:33:02:04
Chris
I think you've done a good job because I get it.
00:33:02:05 - 00:33:05:13
Filly
Okay, cool.
00:33:05:15 - 00:33:12:04
Chris
What about when should people not get into it? Red flags. Green flags.
00:33:12:06 - 00:33:51:22
Filly
Yeah. Okay. So if we're thinking about that from a vitamin B6 toxicity point of view, red flags would be if you're self-medicating, especially with high dosages and with that cheap paradox, an inactive form of a supplement. So again, if this is you go check get it off your pharmacy cabinet and see what you're taking. If you're taking over 50mg or more without professional guidance, this would also where I'd be thinking about like looking at what you're doing with some caution and reaching out to a practitioner to help you.
00:33:52:00 - 00:34:20:00
Filly
And also, if you are experiencing symptom symptoms like tingling or numbness or that muscle weakness. So these can be the nerve damage signs that can come along with vitamin B6 toxicity. Especially if they weren't there before you started taking the basics. Stop it straight away. And talk to a health care provider. Ignoring those symptoms can prove to have long term implications.
00:34:20:00 - 00:34:43:13
Filly
So, I always think with Vitamin B's or protocols that support the nervous system, the brain, the adrenals, the mitochondria, the hormones, that those protocols shouldn't make you feel worse before you feel better. Sometimes when you're killing off nasty stuff in the gut or you're detoxing, you can feel a bit average for like 3 to 7 days. But that's not the case when you're working and supporting within your endocrine system.
00:34:43:13 - 00:35:06:09
Filly
So if you have started, whether it's basics or any other supplement and you're feeling worse, not better, stop what you're taking. And don't just think it's a detox issue, because that that has been a myth that I've seen with new clients when they've started, a protocol that might have had like lovely nutrients to support their brain, their adrenals.
00:35:06:09 - 00:35:20:01
Filly
And, you know, when I've had follow ups with them or they've sent me an email and they're like, oh, I'm not feeling so good. Is this just like, am I just detoxing? I'm like, we're not even detoxing yet. No. Stop what you're taking. We've got to figure out what's going on, okay.
00:35:20:01 - 00:35:46:01
Chris
Yeah, because that makes sense. Because when you write a treatment protocol, you know the sequence of things, right? So. So, I think that's a real important thing to whether you're working with also with somebody else. Just have a conversation with which practitioner and, bring up these reactions.
00:35:46:02 - 00:35:47:01
Filly
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:47:01 - 00:36:09:10
Chris
Don't just hide and think grin and bear it. They, trust, trust, trust. Hide hide, hide. Suppress it. Like, just have conversations. Yeah. That's what for us, anyway. I'm not speaking for anybody else, but I'm sure it would be, the same for others. That's what you're paying us for is to to to to guide you and expertise.
00:36:09:12 - 00:36:14:21
Chris
Yeah, not my expertise. Filly's expertise.
00:36:14:23 - 00:36:43:01
Filly
Yeah. Love that. And then green. Green lights. Good to go. Safe practices when you're working with therapeutic supplements. Work with a qualified practitioner. If we're talking specifically again about vitamin B6, I make sure you're using the active form. If it's in higher dosages. Irregular monitoring and retesting can be really important, especially if you're healing is taking, longer time is a bit more of a slower healing, which is fine.
00:36:43:03 - 00:36:53:03
Filly
And then also appropriate dosing for your individual needs. And that also can come into the equation of like your body weight, your size. So I mean Chris is.
00:36:53:05 - 00:36:55:16
Chris
More than 600.
00:36:55:18 - 00:36:57:13
Filly
Double the mate than that.
00:36:57:13 - 00:37:07:08
Chris
I am a double the mate. He is a well girth butchery.
00:37:07:10 - 00:37:32:03
Filly
Okay. Awesome. So be fun. So I just like, just the closing message really is that vitamin B6 isn't the villain. It can actually, as I said before, be health changing. Life changing for those who are really deficient in it can help move the needle of healing. So it's not the villain, but inappropriate use without guidance is, especially when you're using poor forms of vitamin B6.
00:37:32:05 - 00:38:00:19
Filly
So don't do that. Or if you do, I have we have cautioned you. And yeah, I would also like again just encourage continuing focusing on deeper root causes of healing with proper support. So we've we've focussed a lot on supplements today, which is really just the top, the tip of the iceberg when it comes to healing from body burn out.
00:38:00:21 - 00:38:10:15
Chris
Correct. Thank you so much for listening, guys. We'll see you on the next episode.
00:38:10:17 - 00:38:20:19
Filly
Thank you so much for listening. We so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love by sharing this episode.
00:38:20:21 - 00:38:39:04
Chris
You can also write your own state of burnout and the root cause contributors by taking our Ending Body Burnout assessment on our website. And if you're interested in learning about that group or one on one ending body burnout programs, shoot us a DM via Instagram or Facebook. Have the best day ever.
