00:00:03:04 - 00:00:17:19
Chris
Hello and welcome to the Ending Body Burnout Show. We are your host Chris and Filly, co-founders of a multi-award winning functional medicine practice serving busy people with energy, mood and gut issues. While busyness.
00:00:17:19 - 00:00:24:21
Filly
Addictive, doing, people pleasing and perfectionism might be the norm, it's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
00:00:24:23 - 00:00:38:04
Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic, root root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplements hoping something might stick.
00:00:38:05 - 00:00:46:08
Filly
So get ready to heal your body, get your spark back deeply, connect with yourself, and step into the life of your dreams.
00:00:46:10 - 00:00:55:01
Chris
Let's dive in.
00:00:55:02 - 00:01:30:04
Filly
How long? Welcome back to the podcast. Today are where diving into all things the good girl. Good boy Patton. And advocating for yourself. So I have joined with Laura Cheadle for this conversation. Laura is what I call the confidence coach, so she came on to our podcast early last year. That was episode 98, Burnout or Betrayal, and we were lucky enough to have her run a super fun workshop inside our ending body burnout method just a few months back.
00:01:30:05 - 00:01:52:02
Filly
All about using the body movement, clothes, and props to embody who you want to be. I love her energy. She is amazing today. So today she's back on the show to help you retrain the brain to let go of the good girl or the good boy pattern and advocate for yourself. So a little bit of, her professional blurb.
00:01:52:04 - 00:02:21:09
Filly
Laura is an attorney, Ted, speaker and coach who helps organisations and individuals overcome burnout and spark enthusiasm, confidence and joy. She is the author of It's Not Burnout, It's Betrayal five Tools to Fuel Up and Thrive and Flaunt. Drop your cover and reveal your smart, sexy and spiritual self. And she's also the host of the Flaunt podcast. So I think the uses of the word reveal fluent, smart, sexy.
00:02:21:10 - 00:02:54:13
Filly
Fuel up. You probably already have a pretty good idea of the personality of this bigger than life foreman. Now, before we dive into the episode, Laura was part of my inspiration for our next retreat coming up in March 2027. Unmask and shine. The seed for this retreat was planted back in August 2026 when we held our first retreat, The Body Nose at the Courage of Tasmania.
00:02:54:15 - 00:03:29:07
Filly
And as the days progressed, I was just watching more and more women who came along unmask and step into their true essence, their authentic self. And by the end of the retreat, so many people really like physically shining, but also energetically, emotionally shining as they started to reclaim who they were. And so that's where the seeds for our March 2027 retreat started forming.
00:03:29:09 - 00:03:59:18
Filly
And also just having conversations with women and seeing them, relax and play and laugh and sing and dance. I was like, fire at. I think we could really continue on the experience of the body noise retreat and step it up a notch with unmasking the conditioning, the patterns, the programming that have kept us either stuck or small or living under someone else's expectations.
00:03:59:18 - 00:04:24:23
Filly
Or maybe it was your own old identity expectations and taking off the mask and stepping into who you really are at your core. Finding the things that light you up, that make you happy, the things that you desire, that you've been too scared to even contemplate. Thinking that it could be a possibility for you in this life. And to play, have fun.
00:04:25:05 - 00:04:56:14
Filly
And yeah, like just unleash your sovereign archetype. I know there's a lot of a lot of words. And then and then when Laura came into our program and did this really potent workshop around, like, how we can use our language and how we can use our body and our posture and how we can use sensory anchors and how we can use clothing to step into who we want to be.
00:04:56:20 - 00:05:21:22
Filly
Again, I'm like, oh, I can see that there's a retreat really formulating here around around these ideas that were bubbling up already inside of me. So first of all, I want to thank Laura for being a part of our next retreat creation or the formation of it. So a little bit about it before we dive in to the podcast.
00:05:22:00 - 00:05:57:18
Filly
So it's happening 12th of March to 14th of March. So three days, this retreat is going to be at the most beautiful place on the planet Bay of Fires Bush Retreat, which is on the east coast of Tasmania near Ben along Bay. Any time I visit the east coast of Tasmania, there's something really special and sacred and really potent and vibrant about the coastal landscape, the country.
00:05:57:20 - 00:06:29:15
Filly
I just feel so much inspiration. Anytime I go there, there's the most beautiful beaches. And in March, for anyone who doesn't live in Tassie or you haven't visited any much, it is still usually beach. Whether we are still usually swimming at the beach. So there's going to be beach time if you would like it. But yeah, we're really going to dive into taking off the mask, releasing old conditioning and patterns that are keeping you stuck in body burn out or causing you to dim your light and stay small.
00:06:29:17 - 00:06:58:15
Filly
And during this journey, you will step into your glowy, vibrant, authentic self through play purpose. Finding your power and you will leave a different person lighter, happier, on purpose and lit up by your own shiny awesomeness. And I can hand on heart, say that because I've now witnessed people who came along to our last retreats coming out a different person.
00:06:58:17 - 00:07:27:01
Filly
Transformation can happen in such a small time, especially when we stack it with sensory experiences, deep rewiring practices, root calls, coaching. We'll be doing transformational breathwork. There will be some movement, dance, communal singing, mantras, laughter therapy. And yeah, it's going to be awesome. So we have very limited spots at the time of this recording and this may change.
00:07:27:01 - 00:07:57:19
Filly
We only have, I think, 9 or 10 spots left. And if you do book a spot before the 12th of December, you will get $500 discount for our early birders. So head to the show notes. Come and join us inside or at the retreat. And also, if you are someone who's listening to this podcast and you love what Laura and I are talking about, we also do this work inside our ending body Burnout method programs.
00:07:57:19 - 00:08:20:01
Filly
So the doors are currently closed. We will open them again probably around Feb 2027. So head to the show notes. Pop your name on the waitlist. We would love to have you in our program. All right, let's dive into today's episode.
00:08:20:03 - 00:08:34:12
Filly
Welcome back Laura. We are so well, I, I'm actually doing this episode solo today because Chris has some other projects that he's working on. So we're so excited to have you back on the podcast.
00:08:34:14 - 00:08:40:18
Lora
I am so excited to be back to just to spend some time with you. And in this energy is amazing.
00:08:40:22 - 00:09:05:02
Filly
Yeah. You always make me smile when I see you. You just like big. Your big smile, your bright clothes, your energy. So we had you on the podcast. I actually looked back. So it was about 18 months ago, episode 98 where you talked all about it's not burnout, it's betrayal. And in that episode, which I'm going to pop in the show, notes, links.
00:09:05:02 - 00:09:33:13
Filly
If anyone wants to go back to listen to that one, you talked about your own healing journey and also infertility that you experienced in your marriage and how that has now shaped how you help other women. So we might start there. Just in case anyone hasn't listened to that first episode, just so they can get an understanding of who you are, why you do what you do, what would you say would be the short version of what we what we encapsulated in that podcast episode?
00:09:33:15 - 00:09:57:20
Lora
Yeah, absolutely. The short version is I'm a former corporate attorney who burned out, and even though I did all of the remedies, all the things you're supposed to do, it never really got to the root cause. And they couldn't figure it out. And through a lot of different trying and modalities and worked. It really circled back around to exactly what you believe.
00:09:57:21 - 00:10:24:12
Lora
You know, that burnout is really the root cause is it's that self betrayal. It's not taking care of our bodies in the way that our bodies need to be cared for. And when I started really breaking that down, I came up with it's a sense of betrayal. It's betraying ourselves. It's abandoning ourselves. It's feeling betrayed by the system, by others.
00:10:24:14 - 00:10:46:13
Lora
And when we can really get down to what our expectations are, what our beliefs are, what our practices and habits of advocating for ourselves, standing up for ourselves are, that's when we can really start tackling and managing that burnout at the root level.
00:10:46:15 - 00:11:15:03
Filly
I love that and we will be touching more on that today, just in probably a bit more of a nuanced way which we'll get to in a moment. So last week, by the time this podcast course goes out, it might be a couple of months ago, but you came in as a guest into our ending body van out method program and around a very fun and playful and also challenging for some people workshop on really stepping into who you want to be.
00:11:15:05 - 00:11:35:15
Filly
Like, what's your archetype or the character that you want to be in using the body movement clothes props to really encapsulate the energy, and, and the vibe of that person, I loved it. Can you share a bit about what we what we did in that workshop?
00:11:35:17 - 00:12:06:17
Lora
Yes, absolutely. We all I mean, we're born as little naked people, right? And and throughout our lives we physically where different outfits. Sometimes in school we wear uniforms. When we're going out with friends for a party night, we're going to dress differently than if we're going to church or to visit an elderly relative. We put on clothes to help us step into a vibe.
00:12:06:19 - 00:12:35:00
Lora
We put on makeup. Sometimes we do hair. We do all of these things to our body to either accentuate or to conceal. So what this workshop was all about is it's about becoming aware of who are you and then who are you amplified and who are you with the with the clothes stripped off with a label, stripped off with your identity stripped off.
00:12:35:02 - 00:13:03:16
Lora
And it's not saying that any of those things are good or bad. It's just the way that we live in the world. You know, if you see somebody in a uniform, it means something. If you see somebody in torn up clothes, it means something. If you see somebody in a three piece suit, it means something. So the workshop is all about consciously choosing that and then choosing playfully what what might be constraining you.
00:13:03:18 - 00:13:37:00
Lora
And can I strip out of it by physical? Like all the pain, like perhaps you are a mom and you've got a bunch of kids and you're at home and you're exhausted and you need to find yourself again, and you just want to reclaim yourself. How could you maybe take, like, the apron and the mom jeans that you wear every single day, imbue those items with meaning and then metaphorically take them off and twirl them around and throw them away.
00:13:37:01 - 00:13:43:01
Lora
So once again, you are feeling. Yeah, this is me. This is my authentic self.
00:13:43:03 - 00:14:09:09
Filly
Yes. This is actually said last week when we were sharing like myself and clients were sharing like, oh, this is this is the archetype that I'm, you know, channelling or I'd like to channel for me. And this has been a while, it's more like the heart led, sort of like more hippy feminine roll around in the earth. And I think it was subconsciously.
00:14:09:09 - 00:14:31:09
Filly
I think this is the reason why I've started trialling doing podcasts outside. Like at the moment I am sitting on the grass and the leaves and the bush rustling behind me because of the wind. And like I, I feel like the person that I want to be because of how I have changed up my environment and even my body.
00:14:31:09 - 00:14:51:03
Filly
So going from sitting at a desk in a dark room with lights shining on my face to you know what? Like let's just use the when I say you, this is me. I want to use the sunlight for my light, and I want to use the earth for my chair. And I'm really, really good about it.
00:14:51:05 - 00:15:09:09
Lora
Yes, it feels amazing, doesn't it? Because it's breaking out of somebody. Like who told you you have to record podcast sitting inside with an artificial light, you know, it's like, oh, I don't even know how we started believing that. That's the way to do it. I just started doing it, but it doesn't work for me.
00:15:09:11 - 00:15:35:00
Filly
Yeah, yeah. And and it also doesn't mean it didn't work for a season, but it was also because I was told, like, business is like, well, you need this tech and this tech and the best audio and are and I'm feeling like I'm also just rejecting a lot of AI at the moment. So it's like, how can I be more messier and imperfect and real?
00:15:35:02 - 00:15:52:05
Lora
Yes. And and what was the first thing that I said when I saw you? Oh my gosh, I love the plants. It's like it brings people in when you're really real and authentic in you, because suddenly you're you. And you're not just one of 10 million podcasters out there. Yeah, yeah.
00:15:52:07 - 00:16:13:15
Filly
So this is great. I had a few clients, email me photos of them afterwards, which I haven't told you yet, and it was so good. Like one of the ladies was channelling more of her motherly earthy. I can't remember the name that she used it, but like a witchy sort of thing. And I loved that. And so some people really got into that workshop.
00:16:13:17 - 00:16:35:15
Filly
There were also some people who found it quite challenging, because it's like, oh, like, I feel awkward even talking about this or watching Laura, like you were very animated as well. It's like, can I take my jacket off? And like, I've got my singlet on underneath and I twirl it around. What was your archetype? Yes.
00:16:35:19 - 00:16:59:19
Lora
Yes. Well, I was well, I was sharing was my well, I've got several different archetypes, but it's leaning into the playful. It's leading into the. Yeah. And my alter ego name is Chakra Ties. And to me that ties the shockers and the energy and all this wonderful like, Earth based eastern philosophy. And then the tease. That's the playful, I'm going to flirt with you.
00:16:59:19 - 00:17:13:19
Lora
I'm going to tease with myself. I'm going to play with life. I'm going to flirt with possibilities. So yeah, it's about being big and expressive and bold and just completely letting my energy flow.
00:17:13:21 - 00:17:41:20
Filly
Yes, and I love that. And when like I have seen that in myself and also with clients that we've worked with, when they have got to the place where it's like it's safe to unmask and be me and be playful and like, figure out who I am at my core. It's so life giving. But I thought I really wanted to focus more on this podcast if we backtrack to the good girl.
00:17:42:01 - 00:18:03:04
Filly
Good boy phenomenon. So it's almost like just something I saw in that workshop. And the discomfort that came up for some people was around like, oh, I couldn't be that animated or even a shut down around. I don't even know what my archetype would be, or how I could use my body or my clothes to do the things.
00:18:03:06 - 00:18:11:17
Filly
Yeah. So can you speak into where you have seen this coming from?
00:18:11:19 - 00:18:36:13
Lora
Oh my goodness, yes. It's so prevalent to and I want anybody who is sitting here thinking about who could that be me to first not judge themselves. We we all fall into that. But being the good girl or the good boy is really about pleasing others. And typically we're raised be a good girl, be a good boy, you know, do what your teacher says.
00:18:36:14 - 00:19:08:11
Lora
Do what your pastor or your priest says. Like we we are raised to do what other people tell us to do. And it's nice to be cooperative, and it's nice to help and to follow along and to not be disruptive. And that has its place. And yet when we move into life, we're all very different. And like we were saying on the workshop, I am big and bold and teasing and flirty because that's not me.
00:19:08:13 - 00:19:38:03
Lora
Some people, they're quieter, they're real. Personality is soft and it's subdued and it's passive and whatever it is, it's how can I reach for that? And that good girl. Good boy. Conditioning is you have to make somebody else happy. Don't make yourself happy, but tray yourself, abandon yourself. Just seek to please others. And it's learning to find that balance.
00:19:38:03 - 00:20:01:07
Lora
Because again, it's not about being a completely disruptive jerk. It's about finding what my heart wants. And like that, my heart might want to be outside in nature. My heart might want to be in service to others. My heart might not want to be in service to others. My heart might want to build something or succeed at something.
00:20:01:10 - 00:20:15:06
Lora
It's really giving ourselves permission to drop within and to say, who am I? And what do I want? And how can I make myself happy?
00:20:15:08 - 00:20:21:01
Filly
How can people do that? Because it's I think, like, especially if someone has had many.
00:20:21:01 - 00:20:21:09
Filly
Years.
00:20:21:09 - 00:20:48:06
Filly
Of unconscious core beliefs and programming and conditioning where they've actually cut the cord or they've shut down their ability to communicate to and listen to what their heart wants. So, like even from a visceral point of view and I'd be curious to know, like how you do this for yourself is like, how do you know when it's your heart speaking?
00:20:48:07 - 00:21:04:17
Filly
It's like, hey, this actually would be really good for us, and we like that and we want that versus or maybe I should do that or that someone else's dream that like, well, that sounds nice. I'll try that.
00:21:04:19 - 00:21:26:18
Lora
I think it takes practice and getting it wrong a few times. You know what I mean. Because I do think sometimes we get these big ideas and we get these, we get all hyped up about something and then it sends us into this drive mode. And it might be several months before we realise this drive mode is exhausting me.
00:21:26:19 - 00:21:51:23
Lora
It's not letting me feel good. And as silly as it sounds. Step one is really figuring out what does it even mean to feel good? You know like sometimes, sometimes we think things like sweets or alcohol taste good and they do. However how do they make you feel at the end of the day. You know what I mean.
00:21:52:00 - 00:21:53:03
Lora
Like today.
00:21:53:07 - 00:21:55:20
Filly
Yeah I get that.
00:21:55:22 - 00:22:21:18
Lora
Yeah. Yeah I, I tend to be a pretty healthy eater because I feel good. And I like how fresh I feel when I eat good. Today it's starting to get a little bit fall feel in the air in the United States. And I thought, I want to bake oatmeal cookies. And to me, that just felt so fun. It it brought back memories of my mom making me cookies.
00:22:21:18 - 00:22:45:06
Lora
It brought back memories of fall. And I baked chocolate chip oatmeal cookies. And yes, I ate a few. And I'm not going to deny myself that pleasure because it was fun. But I'm also aware that, okay, that feels a little heavy in my system, and I chose to lean into that whole packet of the experience, and it felt good and it was really fun.
00:22:45:08 - 00:22:51:05
Lora
But I'm also aware of sometimes the the downsides of that too.
00:22:51:06 - 00:23:14:18
Filly
As you're speaking something we did last Christmas, like last summer, Australian summer was and this was purely a heart prompting of my daughter woke up one morning and said she dreamed of going to another place in Australia, which is basically the opposite side of Australia, up in Queensland compared to where we are, and she was just so happy about it.
00:23:14:18 - 00:23:38:13
Filly
She was like, mum, can we go back to Queensland and to a specific place in Brisbane? And I'm like, sure, let's do it. And then I'm like, let's go for a four week camping road trip. And so I jumped on line and we live in Tasmania, which is an island off, Australia. So we had to get the boat there and I'm like, oh, everything's probably booked out because it's Christmas time.
00:23:38:18 - 00:24:01:02
Filly
But I found some spots available. We took our car over, we have a rooftop tent. Actually we didn't at the time of booking. Chris had to like, madly rush to work out all the logistics. And then we went on this most amazing road trip for four weeks that at the three week mark, I'm like, I'm ready to come home.
00:24:01:04 - 00:24:20:18
Filly
And so I think that that's a good example to it's like, and I felt really conflicted when I got home around the experience because on one side, it's like it was so magical and like fun and like there were even spiritual moments when we were in the red centre and like, oh, and then guilt that I didn't enjoy all of it.
00:24:20:20 - 00:24:38:12
Filly
And also that I kind of got sick of it by the end of it. So that really told me that, like, I want adventure, I want family time, love camping, love it. Like the experience of being spontaneous and not knowing where we were going to sleep every night was really cool, but but a shorter period of time?
00:24:38:14 - 00:24:58:14
Lora
Yes, yes. And like that we have to make those mistakes. And I don't even like calling them mistakes, but we have to have the experience sometimes to know like this really does feel good or oh, I that did not feel good because we've had those experiences. See where we're all excited about whatever it is serving a client, building a business.
00:24:58:14 - 00:25:04:07
Lora
And we go, oh God, that just didn't land the way I thought it would land.
00:25:04:09 - 00:25:28:14
Filly
Yes, yes, I've experienced it in business to. Or it's like, oh, that's the goal. And then we get to the goal and it's like, oh, this isn't the right goal. But I wouldn't have known that had I not gone after it and created it. And now I can refine it based on what my heart really wants. Because I don't think I don't think you can know what your heart wants unless you just try some things.
00:25:28:16 - 00:25:51:06
Lora
Yeah, you have to move, you have to experience and then just be present with that. And that's something that I try to do too, is ask myself, what is it that I'm feeling? You know, because sometimes we'll get that pit in our stomach and it's like, is this anxiety? Because I really want this to go well and I'm afraid it won't.
00:25:51:08 - 00:26:18:06
Lora
Is this anxiety because. Oh, I think there's some unintended consequences that might hurt people. And I'm not down to do that. Like what is what is it that I'm feeling and why? Because then we can soothe ourselves. Okay. I'm just nervous that I've never been on a podcast before or whatever it is, but I'm excited about it and I want it so I can lean in versus this is not the kind of person that I want to associate with myself with.
00:26:18:06 - 00:26:24:16
Lora
And we have very different messages and beliefs, and this is my body telling me maybe not now.
00:26:24:18 - 00:26:27:19
Filly
Yeah. This isn't aligned. Yeah.
00:26:27:19 - 00:26:29:04
Lora
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:29:06 - 00:27:03:15
Filly
Okay. So if someone is trying to really listen to what they want and what they desire, and they want to go after it, that they're getting stuck. How does fear, trauma and especially other people's opinions or, and sometimes their like lovely opinions from an intense like lovely intentional point of view. Or you might hire someone to tell you what to do.
00:27:03:17 - 00:27:08:23
Filly
How can how can these three things keep us stuck?
00:27:09:01 - 00:27:33:18
Lora
Let's start with the trauma piece, because I think that's the biggest. And I don't even want to say the most real. But trauma is very real. Trauma hijacks or nervous system. It rewires our brain. It it changes the way that we process things. And it can be so easy to hold ourselves up to somebody else's standard and to think, well, they did it, why can't I?
00:27:33:20 - 00:27:53:04
Lora
Well, you don't know their life story. They don't know your life story. Your life story is your life story. What whatever that trauma is you had or that they had or whatever, you are where you are. And that is that first place of the awareness of I am where I am, and I need to allow myself time to process.
00:27:53:06 - 00:28:38:02
Lora
What I like to do is to set some small steps, some small deadlines, because that way I'm holding myself accountable to move forward so I don't stay in a state of freeze or being stuck forever. But I'm also giving myself permission to feel whatever it is that I'm feeling, and especially with trauma, if you need to get some help, whether it's a therapist or a coach or just somebody that you really trust, talking to somebody often unfreezing us because the demons in our head, the obstacles in our head, can feel so much bigger than they really are when we face it.
00:28:38:04 - 00:29:02:23
Lora
You know, we've all had those experiences. I'm sure everybody listening can relate where they look at their calendar and all the things they have to do, and it's like they almost panic. Their heart stops. How? I mean, get all this in. I don't know how I'm going to get through my day, but then when you're in the day, you're just flowing and you're moving from thing to thing and you're balancing along the way and you're like, oh, I made that worse in my head that it really was to live.
00:29:03:01 - 00:29:04:11
Lora
00:29:04:13 - 00:29:30:06
Filly
Yeah. Yeah. I'm reflecting back when I first started working with a coach because in my head I'm like, I don't have any trauma because I can do the things I thought people who needed to work on their mind were those who, I don't know, struggled to implement things. My patterns were the opposite, where it's like overdoing overachieving. So I must be fine.
00:29:30:08 - 00:29:59:03
Filly
Little did I know that that caused my body burnout. But I didn't seek help on rewiring and reprocessing passed off because my childhood was what I would consider normal. Say, loving Dudley later. However, there were still some things that little me were holding on to that felt really distressing for her in my body, and also definitely like teen and adult stuff.
00:29:59:05 - 00:30:22:06
Filly
And I remember there was there were some things that I'd never told another person with this coach. The judgement free space felt so safe that I'm like, because there was so much shame around this thing. Yes, it felt so safe to be able to voice what I needed to voice and just get it out there knowing that I wasn't going to be judged.
00:30:22:09 - 00:30:41:11
Filly
My body was freaking out because it's like. Like what if, like intellectually, it's like, no, I'm not going to get judged. But my body was like, yes, you are. You're so shameful. But the moment that I got it out, it was almost like it just dissolved in the moment. It's like, oh.
00:30:41:13 - 00:30:47:15
Lora
Wow, that was it. Yeah. I was so worried about that. What? Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:47:17 - 00:30:49:13
Filly
I haven't broken.
00:30:49:15 - 00:30:51:05
Lora
Yeah.
00:30:51:07 - 00:31:06:19
Filly
So that's a good point. And then what about, like, I guess we touched on it with the other people's opinions, and that's, like, really learning to know what you want, what your heart wants, what feels good for you versus what someone else. Yeah, yeah.
00:31:06:20 - 00:31:34:18
Lora
There's so much with the other people's opinions, though. And here's here's what I want to say around that, because I'm really passionate about this. I think when people judge us first, they want the best for us and they don't want us to get hurt. And I know with my own children who are young adults now, especially now that they're young adults, whenever I put my opinion on them, it's just because I don't want them to face heartbreak.
00:31:34:18 - 00:31:56:06
Lora
I don't want them to have financial ruin. I don't want, you know, and sometimes I'll have conversations with them and it's like, I am so sorry, guys. I am just it's not that I don't trust you. It's not that I don't think you can live your own life, but I just have this compulsion to like when you over every bad thing that can ever happen.
00:31:56:06 - 00:31:56:16
Lora
Ever.
00:31:56:20 - 00:32:00:12
Filly
My gosh, I had this experience with my daughter last night.
00:32:00:14 - 00:32:24:21
Lora
Yes, yes. And sometimes I'm even telling them I'm like, guys, I know I sound like my grandma. And I used to think like, why can't she just back off and let me live my life? All be fine. But I'm like, now I get it. I'm just. I just want to help. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's the first part is people honestly just want to help.
00:32:25:02 - 00:32:53:00
Lora
Yeah. And then the second part of judgement is I also firmly believe we judge other people who do what we wish we would have had the courage to do. You know what I mean? Instead of saying, you look amazing, I always wish I could have warned that we're like, don't you think that skirts a little short? Yeah. Yes, yes.
00:32:53:02 - 00:33:16:02
Filly
So if someone because I think it's a two sided coin there. So if someone is like, oh my gosh, I resonate with that person. And like I just want to help and I'm like projecting my opinions on another person. What what would you say would be the best I don't know. Yeah. The word advice is the right word.
00:33:16:02 - 00:33:27:21
Filly
But how do you move through that? Because sometimes it can keep over into rescuing essentially all like, just not allowing someone else to grow and become who they want to be.
00:33:27:23 - 00:33:28:11
Lora
Yeah.
00:33:28:13 - 00:33:45:16
Filly
And then on the other side to if someone feels like they're getting that from a loved one or, you know, maybe it might be a coach or a, a some like a client or something like that. Yeah. How how would you move through, manage both sides of those?
00:33:45:18 - 00:34:15:15
Lora
Yeah. I think first, realising that when somebody judges you, it's about them, it's not about you. And when you can just have that reframe instantly. This is about you. It's not about me. It can help you show up in that situation in a more healthy manner. You know, like when I was talking about my, my, my kids, I told I've told them so many times my judgements about me and what will help me back down because we're in a relationship.
00:34:15:15 - 00:34:37:22
Lora
So we're we're going to have many more conversations is you can tell me something like, thanks, mom, I see you're trying to help. And then I will start realising and I can back down and unhook this both from the situation. So if you're with somebody where judgement keeps coming up. Yeah, you can kind of feed each other the words and the phrases.
00:34:37:22 - 00:35:05:07
Lora
So, you know, and then on the flip side, when you're with somebody and they're just judging the heck out of you, I think it's very powerful to say thank you for that opinion. I'll consider it. And then honestly, to consider it a little bit because when we hear judgement, it can either resonate and then we're like, oh, okay, or it can shut us down.
00:35:05:09 - 00:35:34:23
Lora
And when we invite ourselves in with a place of curiosity, yeah, I can consider that. What what might that mean? And then we're open to it. It might mean I am making a really risky decision. It might mean that I have a higher risk tolerance than somebody else has. It might mean that they are concerned about me. It might mean that they really wish they could be this bold and brave and beautiful and their little jealous of me.
00:35:35:04 - 00:35:42:10
Lora
Like it can mean so many different things. So just ask yourself and then think that person and let them know you'll take it under consideration.
00:35:42:16 - 00:36:05:19
Filly
Yeah, I love that. So both ways it's really just a mirror. It's like if you're or if, you know, a listener is like, I resonate with the like I'm projecting my opinions and other people, then it's a reflection of self. Oh, what's the frame that we use often?
00:36:05:21 - 00:36:35:08
Filly
I now it's gone from my head. That's okay. Anyway. And it's not a judge judgement and others is a reflection of self. Or it's kind of like if you're getting triggered by someone else is often actually always, almost always a reflection on self where that judgement lies. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes too, it could be bringing to surface and things that need to be healed or rewired or looked at.
00:36:35:08 - 00:36:41:09
Filly
And sometimes too, it can actually just bring to surface that. It's like actually you're overstepping a boundary right now.
00:36:41:11 - 00:36:42:02
Lora
Big time.
00:36:42:02 - 00:36:56:16
Filly
And that's why I'm getting triggered, because I've realised that in that moment, for whatever reason, it slipped a bit. And like, I'm actually just training you to treat me in a different way now.
00:36:56:18 - 00:37:13:14
Lora
Yes. Yeah. And what I noticed, too, is when we start being judgy of other people is usually that there's again, that mirror. There's something in me I need to look at. And instead of looking at it I'm just going to get my fingers in your pie. Yeah.
00:37:13:15 - 00:37:35:16
Filly
Yeah. And then on the other side too I loved what you said as well. Or it's like I will consider that because you know maybe there might be something I can learn about myself based on your opinion or thoughts. I won't go into the personal stuff of my daughter because that's her stuff. But there were some things that she said that were really profound that she's like, mum.
00:37:35:18 - 00:37:43:11
Filly
Well, I see it this way. And I was just like, oh, okay, I'll take that into consideration for myself.
00:37:43:13 - 00:37:48:05
Lora
Yeah, it's hard. It's really hard.
00:37:48:10 - 00:38:16:13
Filly
Yes, yes. Yeah. Okay. So again, if someone feels like they identify with the pattern of that good girl, bad girl, they run a pattern of really basically doing what they feel like they should do based on culture or other people's opinions of what they should be doing. How can we start retraining our brains to shift our sense of self?
00:38:16:15 - 00:38:48:07
Lora
Yeah. By being gentle with ourselves first and realising that it takes time. I am very big into using the body physically too, because we can think our way through something, but then it doesn't translate to our body sometimes. So what? When I was stuck in my good girl, it was all about being a perfectionist. It was about looking right and performing right and doing all the things better than everybody all the time and having a smile on my face.
00:38:48:07 - 00:39:17:07
Lora
And, you know, it was about doing all of the things. And I was very uncomfortable with presence and with uncertainty and with messiness. So what I would do is I would move my body into that just gently. I'm just trading it small things like I would go to the market not dressed up just to see like, can I tolerate this?
00:39:17:09 - 00:39:46:13
Lora
I would not that I'm standing at my friends left and right because I can break engagements, but I am being truthful around things. Suddenly I'm saying thank you for that invitation. I really need a night at home. You know, just very small ways of creating more boundaries and doing what I identified as bad or negligent or not good enough.
00:39:46:15 - 00:40:03:13
Lora
Because once I put my body in those situations, it was like kind of like you said when you, you know, spoke things to your coach, we don't implode. I can turn down an invitation. I can say a hard thing. And typically nobody's. Yeah.
00:40:03:15 - 00:40:07:08
Filly
Yeah. Didn't come crashing down.
00:40:07:10 - 00:40:25:21
Lora
Yeah. So just just disappoint people slowly you know. So you see what happens. See if it's even a thing. Because I used to worry about pleasing my grandmother when I started not pleasing her. It didn't really matter. She still loved me. Wait, what? Yeah, maybe.
00:40:26:00 - 00:40:49:16
Filly
Maybe in a different way. Like, you know, that's a bit more healthier. We inside our program, the ending body burnout method. As part of the healing journey, our clients, send through what we call outlets, which are essentially journal or coaching question. And, you know, just so we can help support them in their transformational and healing journey.
00:40:49:18 - 00:41:12:16
Filly
And I love it when someone is struggling to send them through or takes a really long time to send an outlet through because they have to rewrite it, rewrite it again, and, you know, or like they'll ask some questions like, have I got this right before they'll send through their messy version? And something like, this is a safe space.
00:41:12:17 - 00:41:38:05
Filly
I will not judge you if you have spelling mistakes and grammatical mistakes. And even if you don't have the right answers yet because you won't at the start of the journey, it's impossible to have. You don't even know yet. We're just unwired so we can start to rewire. And so, like, I've had so many people say, well, it's actually so liberating that I can just send this really messy, this messy work.
00:41:38:07 - 00:42:01:11
Filly
And then I start seeing them doing it in other areas of their life as well. Like for a lot of, perfectionists, it can show up in the housework as well. So it's like this week, I didn't vacuum every day. I only did it once this week and the world didn't come crashing down. And I'm actually happier and less stressed.
00:42:01:13 - 00:42:03:05
Filly
So this is great.
00:42:03:07 - 00:42:27:08
Lora
Yeah, yeah, I started inviting people over, like I used to think my house had to be perfect, and I used to have the perfect food laid out. And the first time I was like, I'm just going to invite people over and I've got my laundry on the couch because I didn't have time to fold it, and I didn't have food laid out perfectly, and it was like people came over and I'm feeling all this anxiety, and I go to the refrigerator and I'm like, I've got carrots.
00:42:27:08 - 00:42:33:14
Lora
And people are like, oh, that's great, we came to see you anyway. We don't care about your house. And it was like, wait, what? Yeah.
00:42:33:15 - 00:42:37:16
Filly
Yeah, that's so good. I love it, I love it.
00:42:37:18 - 00:42:57:18
Lora
And I love that you mentioned that with the with the journal prompts to you. Because one thing I challenge people to do is to write a poem. And first of all, a poem is creative. It's not logical. Second of all, most people don't write poems all the time, so they feel this sense of panic like, I have to do it right, and it has to be good and deep and meaningful.
00:42:57:23 - 00:43:26:03
Lora
And then in the midst of that panic, I'll tell them, but I want if you're struggling, I want you to write something badly, like intentionally try to write a bad poem. And nine times out of ten, when I give people the prompt, go write me a really bad Limerick or go about writing a really bad poem. They come up with something that is so creative and unique and fun and funny, because it's not supposed to be good.
00:43:26:08 - 00:43:49:17
Filly
Yes, yes. It's so I love that, at practice or I haven't pulled it out for a while, but, journal with your non-dominant hand can be really powerful too. And something that like specifically that I'll do with that. It's like, start off with a question with your logical sorry, start off with a question with your dominant hand.
00:43:49:17 - 00:44:27:12
Filly
So I'm right handed. And that's your brain speaking like that's your conscious mind speaking. And then the left hand, my left hand, which is my non-dominant, is going to access parts of the brain that are more creative, non-linear, and essentially that can represent the body or the subconscious mind. And so that practice can be really beautiful. One people often get really frustrated when they're trying to do to write with their non-dominant hand, but if they hold space for themselves, often people get to the point where it's like, oh, it's supposed to be messy.
00:44:27:14 - 00:44:36:11
Filly
It's supposed to not make logical sense, but by it not making logical sense, it actually ends up making a lot of sense.
00:44:36:13 - 00:44:41:22
Lora
Yeah, that's that's beautiful. Yeah.
00:44:42:00 - 00:45:12:03
Filly
So good. Is there we spoke. I feel like we spoke about advocacy a little bit earlier, but maybe we'll just go a bit deeper into it, especially if someone is like, they're really feeling like their sense of self is changing. They have more love, compassion, confidence in themselves, their tapping into what their heart wants. How can how can we increase our ability to advocate for ourselves?
00:45:12:05 - 00:45:34:03
Lora
Yeah, I love this question because I'm really, really passionate about advocacy because it's a skill that is not really taught, and there's a lot of misconceptions around it. So often we think, if I speak up for myself, if I advocate for myself, it means that I must be harsh. It means that I must be. You know, I'm not bending.
00:45:34:03 - 00:46:05:23
Lora
I'm coming in forceful. And that's usually not the case. Also, with advocacy, so often we think I should just be able to do it. Know if there's something you really care about. Practice. I cannot say enough about practice. Practice some of the words. Practice the conversation in your head. Write down some notes about what I want to accomplish at the ends of this conversation.
00:46:06:01 - 00:46:40:16
Lora
Not because you're scripting it out, but because we're human and it's so easy to get off track and it's so easy to all of a sudden start talking about something, or even fighting about something. That was never the point. But we take it on because suddenly it's in front of this. So if I have almost like a cue card in front of me, a piece of paper, a note on my phone where I've stated my intentions, I want to, whatever it is it could be at work.
00:46:40:18 - 00:47:07:22
Lora
I want to make clear that I can't continue working this much over time. I need to leave by whatever it is, for whatever reason. I've got it very clear. This is what I need to talk about. This is the result that I want. Or if you're talking to your partner, this is what I really need help with. I need you to take on dinner three nights a week.
00:47:07:23 - 00:47:35:00
Lora
This is what I really need help with. Once we're very clear about what it is that we need or want, then we can practice a little bit. We can let ourselves feel those emotions. Oh, I feel selfish asking for this. I feel afraid that I'll be rejected if I ask for this. I feel insecure because I don't have enough data backing this up.
00:47:35:02 - 00:48:05:22
Lora
Okay, now that is something I can do about do something about. Maybe I do need to do a little bit more research. Maybe I do need to like that research something or find different options. Maybe I do need to know what other people are getting paid or you know what I mean. It gives us the opportunity to have our own emotional experience around our ask, and to manage our body and feel those uncomfortable emotions.
00:48:06:01 - 00:48:21:09
Lora
So then when we're in front of somebody, we've rehearsed it. We've rehearsed it in our mind, we've rehearsed it in our body. We've got any supporting evidence that we may need, and we're very, very clear about what it is that we want.
00:48:21:11 - 00:48:51:03
Filly
Yeah, I love that. I think that first step is really crucial as well, because sometimes you can feel a like, for me, it'll show up as resentment if it's if there's something that I need that I'm not getting it. And that might be like me giving it to myself. And sometimes it's relational. And I know for me, like, sometimes I can just sit in that resentment.
00:48:51:04 - 00:49:12:01
Filly
It's just like, oh, I know something's not right. And I know I'm not happy about something, but I don't know what it is. And so, I can play a little game where I pretend I don't know when actually, if I just create space and sometimes it's like 5 or 15 minutes, I can get very clear very quickly around.
00:49:12:02 - 00:49:36:23
Filly
Actually, this is this is what I need. Because otherwise you will go in and that's often where the, the bubble bursts or like, you know, the bottle overflows and it's like, I am sick of this, but if you don't know specifically what you need, then also the person receiving that and that also might be self to self.
00:49:36:23 - 00:49:47:05
Filly
It's like, well, what am I supposed to do with that information? Now I just feel like you're nagging me or you're angry at me, but I can't help you.
00:49:47:07 - 00:50:07:16
Lora
Yes, yes, yes. And like that. I love that you mentioned the resentment, because that is so real and so is bringing in the past, like with my husband. If and I'll just make up a scenario. It's like if I'm asking him because I mentioned earlier, like you need to make dinner three nights a week. If I'm in, my anger and resentment is you need to do this.
00:50:07:16 - 00:50:32:09
Lora
Do you know what I do for this family? And I packed lunches every day and I, you know, and that's not that's not helpful. Yeah. And then I can go into the story of, I know this isn't going to work, because every single time I ask you for something, all you do is. Yeah, yeah. So when we give ourselves those moments to have our little temper tantrums and to throw our little pity parties, then I'm like, okay, that's over.
00:50:32:10 - 00:50:51:06
Lora
Now I need to be clear. I am now seeing clients until, you know, 630 at night. And it would really be helpful to me if you could take that on. What is my ask? My ask is for him to take it on. My ask is these three days, because these are the days I'm with clients and those are his.
00:50:51:07 - 00:51:13:09
Lora
Or like it's structured and then it's just me coming to you and saying, you know what would be really, really helpful? And I would really like you to do this. Could you please consider this? Here's the reason why it's so much different? Because now I'm advocating for what I need and for what I want. But the past isn't here with me, and my own insecurity isn't here with me.
00:51:13:09 - 00:51:15:12
Lora
I've already dealt with it.
00:51:15:14 - 00:51:35:14
Filly
Yes, I love that. Because in coaching sessions I can it's it is a common theme where it's like. But I've told them, I've told him usually it's a partner. I've told him a million times that this needs to change, but he's not changing. So do you feel like the way to move out of that is exactly what you just said?
00:51:35:14 - 00:51:47:02
Filly
It's like the more specific specificity you can request and the more structure there can be, then there's more likely going to be a change on someone else's behalf.
00:51:47:04 - 00:52:07:22
Lora
Yes, yes. And there's a definite because yes, when the charge is out of it, the person is more likely to do it. If it's this game we play where I nag and you resist and I nag and you resist, and I ask, and then you don't do it. And then like we, we know those games and it had the charge has to be out of it.
00:52:07:22 - 00:52:35:07
Lora
If it's a real ask and there's no charge, the request will be received a lot better. And then and the and is the boundary piece. And often people think boundaries are about making somebody else do something. But a boundary is really about what we are going to do. So if I had a very clear, calm ask, you know, using my example dinner three nights a week, I cannot I can't hack it.
00:52:35:07 - 00:52:58:18
Lora
I really, really would like you to do that. And then it doesn't happen. I could check in with that then. Is there something is this a request that you are interested in accommodating? Because if not, I'm just going to schedule some takeout to be delivered on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I'm not seeking permission. I'm not saying is that okay?
00:52:58:20 - 00:53:19:07
Lora
I'm merely taking care of myself. Those are my stress days and I need food. And if you aren't stepping up to make the food, I will have them delivered. I'm not going to stress myself out by pre meals, I. I need support and I will take care of myself. And it's not about fighting it or see what you made me do or is that okay?
00:53:19:07 - 00:53:25:23
Lora
Or why don't you? My boundary is I choose me and I take care of me. Yes.
00:53:26:01 - 00:53:47:05
Filly
I love that. I've shared this on the podcast before, but it was a few years ago. I was coming home from my clinic days when I was working one on one with clients. Big long days, and the kids weren't fit and the house was messy and they weren't in bed, and I just knew something had to change.
00:53:47:06 - 00:54:11:21
Filly
And so pretty much use those those skills that you're just talking about, Chris and I, where I'm like, I don't expect you to cook every night, but these two nights a week, I want the kids fed. I want the kitchen clean. He misinterpreted that as like, vacuum because I got home one day and it's just like, why is the kitchen still messy?
00:54:11:23 - 00:54:34:23
Filly
I just said, the house clean. And so for him, he was like so proud that he vacuumed the house before I got home. But it was the kitchen that I wanted, so that was like a learning curve to that. I wasn't specific enough with. The thing that I actually would, would be really helpful, so that when I woke up in the morning, there'd be a clean kitchen, we could make the breakfast, school lunches, all that sort of stuff.
00:54:35:03 - 00:54:57:13
Filly
And it probably took like a month or two, and we got into a rhythm of that. And also where Chris could work out because I had high expectations, where it's like, you need to cook them a healthy meal when I'm away. And for him, sometimes it was just too much. And so then I dropped my expectations and I'm like, I don't care what you feed them, even if it's pizza for you, but you order it.
00:54:57:13 - 00:54:59:01
Filly
I'm not.
00:54:59:03 - 00:55:22:20
Lora
Yes, yes. And that's the thing with boundaries. It has to be things we can control. And like that sometimes, like it's pizza. It's fine. You know, we can be okay with it. Or you could make a different choice. And the choice wouldn't be nag him and make him a gourmet cook. You know, it might be. So I'm hiring a personal chef.
00:55:22:22 - 00:55:44:13
Lora
Yes. It does not meet my needs. So it's all about. How can I refuse to betray myself? How can I meet my own needs? You know, with, with or without you? If you want to be a part of it. Lovely. It creates such, such a synergistic relationship. And I can serve you too, because we love each other. But if it's not working.
00:55:44:17 - 00:55:51:22
Lora
How can I make take care of myself without making you responsible or feel guilty for not doing it? Yeah.
00:55:52:00 - 00:56:15:06
Filly
I love that. Oh, thank you so much. There's so many gold nuggets that are kind of like, we could pull that one out and that one out and that one out. Really practical things that listener can start implementing in their day to day life. So thank you so much for sharing and for your energy and your wisdom and for being unapologetically you.
00:56:15:08 - 00:56:16:21
Filly
Yay! Thank you.
00:56:16:22 - 00:56:36:09
Lora
So much. It was been so fun, and I love just the practical nature of the show, because so often I feel like we make things so much more difficult because we're trying to be the good girl, because we're trying to be the good boy, because we're trying to make it perfect instead of just allowing life to flow and breathe and move.
00:56:36:11 - 00:56:37:15
Filly
Yes, yes.
00:56:37:18 - 00:56:38:13
Lora
Oh.
00:56:38:15 - 00:56:49:19
Filly
So what's the best way that people can get in touch with you if they want to find out more? I know you've got your own podcast, your book, your website, where we're where can we send people to?
00:56:49:21 - 00:56:55:20
Lora
Yeah. My podcast is flaunt. Instead of being compressed, flaunt and put it all out.
00:56:55:21 - 00:56:57:04
Filly
It is.
00:56:57:06 - 00:57:09:21
Lora
Yes it is. I'm on social media, Laura Cheadle. And you can also go to Laura cheadle.com and it's LORACHEADLE.
00:57:09:23 - 00:57:11:18
Filly
Thank you so much.
00:57:11:20 - 00:57:12:14
Lora
Thank you.
00:57:12:16 - 00:57:21:16
Filly
Bye. Thank you, everyone for listening and tuning in. And we'll catch you next week.
00:57:21:18 - 00:57:31:20
Filly
Thank you so much for listening. We so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love by sharing this episode.
00:57:31:22 - 00:57:50:06
Chris
You can also rate your own state of burnout and the root cause contributors by taking our Ending Body Burnout assessment on our website. And if you're interested in learning about our group or one on one ending body burnout programs, shoot us a DM via Instagram or Facebook. Have the best day ever.
