00:00:03:08 - 00:00:17:20
Chris
Hello and welcome to the Ending Body Burnout Show. We are your host Chris and Filly, co-founders of a multi-award winning functional medicine practice serving busy people with energy, mood and gut issues. While busyness.
00:00:17:20 - 00:00:25:01
Filly
Addictive doing, people pleasing and perfectionism might be the norm, it's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
00:00:25:02 - 00:00:38:07
Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic root root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplement hoping something might stick.
00:00:38:08 - 00:00:46:13
Filly
So get ready to heal your body, get your spark back deeply, connect with yourself, and step into the life of your dreams.
00:00:46:14 - 00:00:55:08
Chris
Let's dive in.
00:00:55:10 - 00:01:38:21
Filly
Hello! Today we are joined with Doctor Cory Kroeger, who is a acupuncturist and doctor of traditional Chinese medicine, to have a really important conversation about the impact that stress and unresolved burnout has on perimenopause and how to care for yourself in this phase of big change and eldership. Now, if you're a man or a woman who is listening and you're not dealing with perimenopause or you're not in that phase, this is still be a really important podcast for you to listen to because according to the stats, 12% of the world's population are moving through perimenopause.
00:01:38:21 - 00:02:08:03
Filly
So there's definitely things that you can learn to help support your partner, wife, mom, friend, sister, daughter that yeah, he's not. As the stuff that we talk about is not the type of things that we learn at school or that we are educated in. So it's a really important conversation to have, and I'm so excited to have it with Doctor Carey.
00:02:08:04 - 00:02:32:01
Filly
She is lots of fun. I actually met Doctor Carey at a retreat I went to a back in 2025. She came in as a facilitator to talk about women's health and she is just so much fun. She is a joy and she is a woman of a lot of wisdom. So I know that you're going to love her.
00:02:32:05 - 00:03:04:05
Filly
Also, Doctor Carey will be coming into our Ending Body Burnout Method program next week, which we're super excited about. We're actually going to focus on emotional well-being from a Chinese medicine perspective, really looking at the kidneys and the adrenals and this winter season that we're moving into in Australia. So it's going to be a really beautiful coaching session where she'll guide us through or our clients through how to support ourselves during this season.
00:03:04:07 - 00:03:30:10
Filly
So if you are a client, come along live. It's always better live. But of course the replay will be there. And if you are interested in joining our Ending Body Burnout method program, our doors are actually opening in just a few weeks, which is so exciting. We are opening in June. You will be able to watch the replay back of Doctor Kerry's session, plus get access to Chris and I.
00:03:30:12 - 00:03:55:08
Filly
We can start looking into your health issues from a physical functional medicine perspective and also help guide you through metaphysical rewiring and healing. So if you would like to find out a bit more about our six month Healing Accelerator program, just head down to the show notes and check out the Ending Body Burnout Method. Jump on the waitlist if you are interested, because the benefit of doing that is when you get first dibs on a spot.
00:03:55:09 - 00:04:17:09
Filly
We only accept a limited amount of people per launch because both of the options of working with us inside the program includes one on one support, so we have to cap that so we don't burn ourselves out working with too many people. And also you will get $500 worth of early bird bonuses if you're on the wait list and you join during the early bird period.
00:04:17:09 - 00:04:41:05
Filly
So check that out in the show notes as well. Now a little bit about Doctor Kerry, the official stuff. So as I said before, she is an acupuncturist and a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine. She has two decades of clinical experience. At the dawn of the wellness era, Kerry forged a practice in some of the world's leading health retreats, integrating traditional health care and spa therapies.
00:04:41:07 - 00:05:05:20
Filly
Now a passionate writer, practitioner and educator focusing on women's health and perimenopause, she offers courses for women to better understand perimenopause. She also mentors health practitioners, most recently with her exciting new project called the Stab Club. So let's dive into today's episode.
00:05:05:22 - 00:05:16:18
Chris
And welcome to this episode of the Ending Body Burnout Show. Filly and I have a guest on the call today. Doctor Kerry, welcome.
00:05:16:20 - 00:05:22:05
Dr Keri
And thank you for having me. I'm excited. Excited to see where we go with this conversation.
00:05:22:08 - 00:05:37:17
Filly
I am so excited to. Last time we caught up in real life was back in October at Melissa's Exhale Retreat when you came in to do a women's health session, which was just so beautiful.
00:05:37:19 - 00:05:40:11
Dr Keri
Really lovely. It was. It was really lovely.
00:05:40:11 - 00:05:50:02
Filly
So lovely. So I'm really excited to share you with our people. And to listen to all your wise, wise wisdom.
00:05:50:03 - 00:05:54:22
Dr Keri
Oh my goodness. Here's, here's hoping I can bring it. Right.
00:05:55:00 - 00:06:23:18
Filly
I know you will. Okay. So we always we do love especially guests who are working in the health space. As practitioners, they often have their own story as to why they do what they do to navigate the whole like health industry, to get the the healing and the results that you want. So are you happy to dive into, I guess, like your own burnout story and how that connected to perimenopause, which is what we'll focus on during the interview?
00:06:23:20 - 00:06:53:03
Dr Keri
Absolutely. And look, there's obviously 25 words or less version of this story. And then there is the, you know, longer extended version that we might have if we were at a slumber party. But I think for today's story, I think it's pertinent to start in my early 30s. And I think a lot of women have, you know, at any age, tricky experiences, whether it's ill health, family issues.
00:06:53:05 - 00:07:16:16
Dr Keri
For me, I was 33 ish and about to get divorced. I'd been travelling the world. It was a kind of one of those, you know, many, I think, that we have across our life just that moment of what do I want? Where am I going? What am I not okay with? And in our early 30s, from a TCM perspective.
00:07:16:17 - 00:07:43:13
Dr Keri
So I am a doctor of Chinese medicine, not an MD doctor, but you know, we've got energy at that age. We, generally speaking, have got energy at that age, whether we've had children yet or not. We can kind of hit these hard places in life, push too hard, burn the candle at every which and have hard experiences happen and just kind of keep going.
00:07:43:15 - 00:07:43:23
Filly
Yeah.
00:07:44:00 - 00:08:16:15
Dr Keri
We know we're not quite right. We know things aren't optimal. I don't think I would have used that language back then, but you can just keep pushing through. And so I certainly despite I mean, my education, I graduated with my Bachelor of Health Sciences at the ripe old age of 23. So at 33, I still had a degree of understanding and education, but my physical embodied experience was, well, if I'm not literally on the bathroom floor, unable to move, then I must be fine.
00:08:16:15 - 00:08:40:23
Dr Keri
And you just keep going. Yeah, and there's a lot of things that I wouldn't I would suggest to women if I met myself at that age now, or if I met them at that age, to say, I know that you can keep going, and I know that you do still just wake up in the morning and you're able to get to work to get the kids to school, to do the things.
00:08:41:01 - 00:09:09:02
Dr Keri
But I would love you to pay attention to these signs. That kind of anxiousness, the sleep that is an ideal weight gain, weight loss, all of those things that we just sweep under the rug. I came up with a framework since then, which I call a lifestyle load, and I use that language instead of asking women if they're feeling stressed or anxious, because I think so many of us are just feeling stressed.
00:09:09:02 - 00:09:31:22
Dr Keri
And again, you think if you're not on the bathroom floor, then you must be fine. Yeah. And I break that down into big T trauma that we might have experienced at some point. Small t trauma, that's just kind of stuff that's happening. That again, I don't know. Why do we just keep pushing through? I'm not sure. And then the kind of stress that we think is urgent, you know, I've got to get back to that email.
00:09:31:23 - 00:10:11:06
Dr Keri
I've got to answer that phone call. I've got to do all of these extracurricular things. And so I definitely had some small t stuff happening, and I had some big T stuff happening that I was just very cleverly tucking under rugs wherever I went. And I know a lot of women can relate to that. And so I think for most of my 30s, in my early 40s, I was just in this rolling state of three months down, nine months back up, three months down, back up, where you just never actually sick, you're never actually unwell.
00:10:11:08 - 00:10:37:03
Dr Keri
But again, I didn't have that language then I wasn't optimal. Yeah. And, you know, you see a counsellor here and you go to an energy healer there, and you take some ashwagandha somewhere else, and you hope for the best. And that's me with all of my education, you know, and then in my late 40s, I'm 50.
00:10:37:04 - 00:11:05:05
Dr Keri
I turned 50 last year in my late 40s. I had another one of those hard experiences where a bunch of stuff in my life changed very suddenly. I didn't see it coming. And yes, it was hard. And yes, I think anybody would have had some issues, you know, loss of confidence, some fear, some concerns about cash flow, other sorts of things.
00:11:05:05 - 00:11:33:14
Dr Keri
But it just completely floored me. You know, I was very sick very quickly for about 18 months mentally and emotionally unwell. And I think I probably caught some virus or something. I didn't necessarily look at it from that medical perspective soon enough. And again, with all my education, you know, it's so helpful to have somebody else to help guide you through these processes.
00:11:33:14 - 00:11:36:00
Dr Keri
And I'm sure we've all we're all nodding.
00:11:36:03 - 00:11:38:09
Dr Keri
We're all nodding. Yeah.
00:11:38:11 - 00:12:05:04
Dr Keri
I know, I know the perfect Band-Aid for this. It's like, babe, we don't need a Band-Aid. We need some, like, proper rehabilitation, maybe a tiny bit of surgery. We don't have a Band-Aid big enough for this. And and, you know, I can laugh because it's it was like 20, 20, 22, 23. So I've had some time and distance and I took a proper 12 months off work.
00:12:05:05 - 00:12:34:09
Dr Keri
I lived on my savings for 12 months. It was a proper go to ground moment. If you don't look at this now, things are like, I just knew something isn't right here at the heart of it. And realistically, it was relatively simple. I mean, I say 12 months, 12 months. I think most of us would be very fearful if you were told in advance you were going to need 12 months to lie down.
00:12:34:11 - 00:13:00:21
Dr Keri
But in hindsight, I can't help but wonder if I had have stopped at some point beforehand if there had been something internally instead of waiting for the big external whack on the head. If I had have had that internal knowing to stop before I had to stop, maybe it would have only been six months. Maybe I would have been able to handle that situation that happened differently.
00:13:00:23 - 00:13:26:00
Dr Keri
Now. That's that's not where the learning was. Clearly the learning was in actually stopping. But it's, you know, that is the gift. And I guess we segway here into the, the pros and cons and framing of that perimenopause framework. I could have blamed being in perimenopause.
00:13:26:02 - 00:13:46:23
Dr Keri
Realistically, it had nothing to do with being 46. My body had just had enough accumulative trauma with a big T trauma. The small t, you know, putting a lot of things that didn't necessarily need to be prioritised at the top of the list. And enough was enough.
00:13:47:01 - 00:13:47:20
Chris
I love it.
00:13:47:21 - 00:13:56:12
Filly
Yeah, yeah. So many newer clients like women in perimenopause age. It's like I think it's just very menopause.
00:13:56:18 - 00:13:58:06
Dr Keri
It's like girlfriend.
00:13:58:07 - 00:13:59:16
Dr Keri
Yeah that's lovely.
00:13:59:16 - 00:14:06:07
Filly
Yes and no. Not just no. It's some diva things going on underneath that.
00:14:06:13 - 00:14:08:00
Chris
This filly and I were.
00:14:08:00 - 00:14:11:07
Chris
Just we just recorded a podcast prior to about.
00:14:11:08 - 00:14:12:18
Chris
Birthing and.
00:14:13:00 - 00:14:13:20
Chris
We were.
00:14:13:20 - 00:14:14:11
Chris
Speaking about.
00:14:14:11 - 00:14:20:16
Chris
Miscarriages and our experience with, with that. And I think.
00:14:20:19 - 00:14:54:22
Chris
As humans where differently men and women. But but similarly there's this, this way of pushing through that we get to a phase of our lives where it's just like that, that pushing through doesn't serve us in the same way that it used to serve, serve us as youngins. I don't know why my timer just came on there, but yeah, we just get to his point and you know, you pushed through the birthing experience and and the baby comes out.
00:14:54:23 - 00:15:10:03
Chris
You push through creativity and and the thing happens. But then all of a sudden we get to a point where we need to shift. We need to pivot, don't we? For men and women specifically, we're talking.
00:15:10:05 - 00:15:14:11
Dr Keri
Well, I mean, it affects our physiology differently, but.
00:15:14:11 - 00:15:15:11
Dr Keri
That's true.
00:15:15:12 - 00:15:35:02
Dr Keri
I don't really know that it I question whether it serves at all. Like, I think if you've got to get that assignment in by the mid light midnight deadline. Well sure. Like you pushed through for that afternoon or that night or that day or something. But pushing through isn't like temporary.
00:15:35:08 - 00:15:36:17
Filly
It's not a marathon.
00:15:36:21 - 00:15:41:21
Chris
It's a it's a short term win. Long term loss. Yeah, yeah.
00:15:41:23 - 00:15:49:05
Filly
What do you what do you think was the the root cause of that for you.
00:15:49:06 - 00:15:53:09
Filly
Look like stemming that.
00:15:53:11 - 00:15:55:19
Dr Keri
What was causing me to keep pushing on.
00:15:55:20 - 00:15:57:17
Filly
Yeah. Which essentially.
00:15:57:19 - 00:15:58:13
Dr Keri
I think.
00:15:58:14 - 00:16:28:05
Dr Keri
I think a little bit of the cultural norm. Like, again, you have to have had a cancer diagnosis or something has to be really very wrong with you to be kind of allowed to stop. And I think, you know, culturally, too, I was single, living on my own, making lifestyle choices that required a certain level of income and output and all of the things, you know.
00:16:28:09 - 00:16:57:20
Dr Keri
And again, you know, in a body where your physiology isn't constantly in fight or flight, I wonder what kind of different choices you get to make. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's not denying the culture that we live in. I'm certainly not denying rent prices right now, or property prices or whatever else that people are genuinely finding a level of hardship around.
00:16:58:02 - 00:17:20:06
Dr Keri
And also, it's very difficult to see your way through those situations when you are pumped full of cortisol and adrenaline. And oestrogen isn't being cleared and progesterone is nowhere in sight, and just clinging on to the next cup of coffee and a Kit Kat hoping for the best.
00:17:20:08 - 00:17:35:00
Filly
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So during that that year that you prioritised for resting, slowing down, healing, was it rest alone that allowed you to heal or what did the healing journey look like?
00:17:35:02 - 00:17:35:14
Dr Keri
I think.
00:17:35:14 - 00:18:00:23
Dr Keri
It was it was rest. And again in Perry. And this is always so fascinating for me to be able to share, because I think a lot of women that I talk to, I almost cranky at themselves for not knowing how their body works. And I think that can be a really great stepping point to learn more about yourself.
00:18:00:23 - 00:18:25:03
Dr Keri
But also, we weren't ever taught it wasn't in our schooling systems. We're not having those conversations with our peace. It's just not something that is even in our consciousness, possibly until we're trying to get pregnant and can't or until we're in pain each month or something else happens, like you hit Perry and it's, you know, feels like it's a complete shock.
00:18:25:05 - 00:18:49:03
Dr Keri
I recognise that my first instinct was to go to the GP and have someone tell me what was wrong with me. It was a really fascinating internal. Program to actually see that it was even in there. And I came home and I said to my partner at the time, like I said to Mark, I was like, I just went to the doctor.
00:18:49:04 - 00:18:50:20
Dr Keri
Hoping that I was going to.
00:18:50:21 - 00:18:51:12
Dr Keri
Give me.
00:18:51:12 - 00:18:51:20
Dr Keri
A.
00:18:51:20 - 00:18:55:02
Dr Keri
Pill to make this better. Like, it was just.
00:18:55:03 - 00:18:55:14
Dr Keri
Such a.
00:18:55:14 - 00:19:17:00
Dr Keri
Bizarre on moment of how, and maybe I wasn't really paying attention to what my body was trying to tell me. So there was, yes, rest. Like all of a sudden I wasn't doing five K walks every morning, and I wasn't going on hikes on the weekend, and I wasn't doing all of the other so-called really good things for you.
00:19:17:00 - 00:19:24:08
Dr Keri
That involved a lot of output. But I was really dismantling a lot of unhelpful junk in my head.
00:19:24:09 - 00:19:25:10
Dr Keri
Truthfully.
00:19:25:12 - 00:19:26:02
Filly
Yeah.
00:19:26:07 - 00:19:30:01
Dr Keri
And that's not sexy. And you can't sell that really easily.
00:19:30:01 - 00:19:37:06
Filly
And but it's it's the most beautiful work that anyone can do for themselves. And probably the hardest.
00:19:37:08 - 00:19:38:23
Dr Keri
The hardest for sure.
00:19:39:00 - 00:19:59:22
Dr Keri
And then to actually pay attention to what do I actually need? Well, I don't know, Kerry. You've been practising this thing called acupuncture and Chinese medicine for the last 20 years. Maybe. How about you go and get treatment once a fortnight? Oh, there's a novel idea, you know. So I lived my own medicine properly, probably for the first time.
00:20:00:00 - 00:20:04:17
Dr Keri
It was very, very humbling and very, very effective.
00:20:04:19 - 00:20:30:10
Filly
Thank you so much for sharing that. Like, really transparently as well, because I think people like especially, well, women and women. But I feel like there's a lot of shame sometimes for women when it's like, I should I just I should know these things, I can I do know the things that I should be doing. And then hearing that from you who had been already practising Chinese medicine and natural therapies for what was it, 20, 25 years?
00:20:30:14 - 00:20:32:03
Dr Keri
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's.
00:20:32:04 - 00:20:36:06
Dr Keri
Like I stepped into my first class 30 years ago.
00:20:36:08 - 00:20:37:15
Filly
Yeah. Right. Okay.
00:20:37:20 - 00:20:39:06
Dr Keri
Yeah. Ridiculous.
00:20:39:08 - 00:20:51:10
Filly
Yeah. And it is a journey to though I'm sure that there, there would have been along the way practising it. But then the depth of which you then practised it during that healing phase and.
00:20:51:10 - 00:20:56:05
Dr Keri
Ongoing really embodied it. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Yeah yeah.
00:20:56:07 - 00:21:07:14
Filly
Okay. So I want to ask you all the things about perimenopause because you are the perimenopause fairy, Godfrey.
00:21:07:16 - 00:21:26:18
Filly
So let's talk about symptoms. First of all, because I feel like there's there's a lot of you. You said earlier we just weren't educated about this. I think even back when I went to high school, there wasn't, you know, like, yes, we had sex ed, but there wasn't a lot of information really around, like your female hormone cycle.
00:21:26:18 - 00:21:57:01
Filly
And, you know, even as a teenager. So we definitely wouldn't have got taught any of that about menopause back then when we went to school. And I think part of this is women. There's a lot of women who think that they are only having perimenopause symptoms if they're having like the traditional hot flushes, sleepless nights where they're like throwing the, you know, the doona off their, off their body, or psycho like mood imbalances, massive mood swings.
00:21:57:01 - 00:21:57:22
Filly
But there are so.
00:21:58:01 - 00:22:00:20
Dr Keri
Many everybody.
00:22:00:22 - 00:22:18:12
Filly
So they're kind of like the classic ones. But what are some other symptoms that might show up? And again, it's I just want to also pre frame or reinforce that it's not just that your hormones are out of whack because there's going to be other things going on. But what are some common things that women see during this transition.
00:22:18:13 - 00:22:45:19
Dr Keri
Look genuinely there can be I mean yeah, like you say, there's hot flushes and and all of that kind of hot stuff. Brain fog gets talked about an awful lot. And sometimes it is to do with oestrogen. Sometimes it is more to do with stress. Yeah. I think sometimes two women come in and they're just feeling off.
00:22:45:20 - 00:23:10:17
Dr Keri
They're just it's not even a one particular thing. I mean, we can list all of the ones that we know. Joint pain, hot flushes, itchy scalp, moodiness, sleep issues. But then there's often just this internal. I'm not quite right on some level, or I'm not feeling as confident, and they might put it down to some weight gain or some changes in shape or size.
00:23:10:18 - 00:23:36:20
Dr Keri
You know, I the phrase I'm doing everything the same. But I now don't fit into my pants or I am, you know, looking differently. I think we do start to notice some of the more subtle changes in our skin texture and tone, and that is affecting us just at that subtle level where we just don't feel that vibrancy and we want that back.
00:23:36:21 - 00:23:43:23
Dr Keri
We're still trying to do the 25,000 million things, and we're just not quite sure anymore.
00:23:44:01 - 00:23:44:11
Dr Keri
00:23:44:13 - 00:24:08:23
Filly
Yeah. When I was diving into like very deep into Science of Parramatta Pores, probably like it was the age in which I was coming up to and then also like, oh there's a lot of like women to I was just, I was quite shocked that it's like basically any symptom really. Or someone could have a previous chronic health symptom that just worsens.
00:24:09:01 - 00:24:11:08
Dr Keri
Yes. And it. Yeah.
00:24:11:08 - 00:24:15:03
Filly
Yeah. Why is that the case? Like what's happening at a physical.
00:24:15:03 - 00:24:17:09
Dr Keri
Level that's causing.
00:24:17:11 - 00:24:47:19
Dr Keri
More than anything, perimenopause will tend to uncover what's already there more than cause or create. Yes. I mean by, you know, on average, menopause, which is the 12 months of not having had a period occurs at around according to stats like age 5152. Right. At that point, oestrogen and progesterone on my fun little graph here are quite low.
00:24:48:00 - 00:24:48:21
Dr Keri
But if.
00:24:48:23 - 00:24:52:17
Filly
This by a YouTube.
00:24:52:19 - 00:24:54:15
Dr Keri
Just imagine a graph going up.
00:24:54:15 - 00:24:55:04
Dr Keri
And down in my.
00:24:55:04 - 00:25:22:02
Dr Keri
Hand, waving randomly in the air. But in our early 40s, things aren't often. Often they aren't actually going down there changing and oscillating. So from a oestrogen point of view, because he's she they are the guy that we're all talking about incessantly. Every time I open my phone, there's someone there saying oestrogen, blah, blah. And I've.
00:25:22:02 - 00:25:22:09
Dr Keri
Just.
00:25:22:09 - 00:25:26:05
Dr Keri
Stopped being Instagram because I keep being told about oestrogen every time.
00:25:26:07 - 00:25:27:18
Filly
The algorithm knows.
00:25:27:18 - 00:25:28:03
Dr Keri
That you're.
00:25:28:03 - 00:25:32:16
Filly
An acupuncturist that helps women in perimenopause.
00:25:32:18 - 00:25:34:00
Dr Keri
Give me a break algorithm.
00:25:34:00 - 00:25:38:02
Dr Keri
Just give me some cute dogs or something.
00:25:38:04 - 00:26:06:12
Dr Keri
But yeah, in our early 40s there's that characteristic fluctuation. So all of a sudden you weren't having any issues with your period, or especially if you already were, and you were just getting by or able to mask or able to take painkillers or able to just eat them, bear it and have 24 hours out, it's a real call to say, hang on a minute, we need to sort this out right now.
00:26:06:14 - 00:26:31:06
Dr Keri
And from a Chinese health perspective, Perry is one of the things that they call a golden opportunity. So there's three golden opportunities. There's our period each month, and we have that opportunity to really optimise in our inner to use that word again, we have the opportunity to really take care of our health and improve how we're going to experience our health in that following month.
00:26:31:07 - 00:27:00:11
Dr Keri
Postpartum is the second golden time where you have that opportunity. If you've had children to take really, you know, it's that, 41st days and the concept of confinement and those sorts of things where you really, in an ideal world, are nourished very, very well to take care of your health as you continue to maybe have more children or raise your family.
00:27:00:11 - 00:27:10:01
Dr Keri
So, Perry, is that next third golden opportunity to set yourself up for really beautiful ageing. And so.
00:27:10:02 - 00:27:10:14
Dr Keri
If we're.
00:27:10:14 - 00:27:31:16
Dr Keri
Really, really looking at having a healthy old age. This is the time you wake up at 40 and go, I want to be a robust 80 year old lady running up hills doing cool things with my grandkids. You know, raising my, I don't know, flock of Tanika voodoo.
00:27:31:22 - 00:27:34:06
Dr Keri
And here's.
00:27:34:06 - 00:27:46:07
Dr Keri
Where I'm going to set that up. I'm really paying attention to my health, sorting that cycle nonsense out that I've been putting off for the last ten years. Really take care of yourself now.
00:27:46:08 - 00:28:16:20
Filly
Yeah, it's interesting you talk about the the two other phases. So and if we connect to that back to burnout, it's probably pretty rare one because girls, teenagers, early adults just aren't educated in how to support themselves through their cycle and what that looks like in that monthly seasonal change. And so it's like the pushing on and then, having a baby getting on with it.
00:28:16:22 - 00:28:41:22
Filly
That was my experience. It's like two weeks postpartum. I feel, okay, let's get back into life intensely. That was my second experience of pretty major body burnout in health issues because I like I didn't give myself that time and space to like, nourish and recuperate and rest and build my body back up and yeah, yeah.
00:28:41:22 - 00:29:02:00
Dr Keri
And it's so necessary. And this isn't just things that we should have been told as girls, if our whole culture was educated about our boyfriends, our, you know, husbands, the fathers of our children would just know this is what we do.
00:29:02:05 - 00:29:03:00
Dr Keri
This is this.
00:29:03:00 - 00:29:20:16
Dr Keri
Is how we take care of our partner who's just had a child. This is how I take care of my, you know, girlfriend whose period is really horrible this month. This is how like, you would just be a kind of given understanding of how we care for ourselves and each other.
00:29:20:21 - 00:29:21:16
Dr Keri
Yeah.
00:29:21:18 - 00:29:22:08
Filly
I think, you.
00:29:22:08 - 00:29:22:19
Dr Keri
Know.
00:29:23:00 - 00:29:31:09
Filly
Workplace environment as well. Again, that's not really integrated in many workplaces, but it would make a big difference if it was.
00:29:31:11 - 00:29:32:02
Dr Keri
Yeah.
00:29:32:03 - 00:29:50:16
Dr Keri
It would make an enormous difference and it would make a like it's horrible that we have to sell it back as productivity and KPIs. But at the end of the day, it would 100% reflect in better productivity and better KPIs and better everything else.
00:29:50:20 - 00:30:16:06
Filly
Yeah, yeah. As of today, I've finished my period officially. Not like forever. I haven't reached the menopause phase yet, but, this morning I said to Chris, hey, I noticed that you follow this guy. It's this guy, and he has, like, all his reals are him massaging his partner at different periods in her cycle. So it's like, and this is how you care for your woman when she's first, the first day of her bleed.
00:30:16:06 - 00:30:27:09
Filly
And this is how you care for her when she's ovulating. And I'm, like, sending this to Chris. Like, you just need to massage me every day in different places, and I'll be happy.
00:30:27:11 - 00:30:28:11
Dr Keri
I think I think this.
00:30:28:11 - 00:30:32:00
Dr Keri
Is just really sensible, well-planned behaviour.
00:30:32:01 - 00:30:35:04
Filly
Yeah, I love it. Yeah. So good.
00:30:35:06 - 00:30:44:04
Chris
It's like, hey, Siri, put an appointment for my massage with Filly, I need delete. No doctor. Right.
00:30:44:06 - 00:31:03:10
Dr Keri
You know what though? This is a really beautiful moment to share. And again, like I am an absolutely an open book because I feel like I'm not sharing from the wound. I'm sharing from the sky. And I also just think, like the more open we are about things within reason and in, you know, appropriate places, it just there's no shame.
00:31:03:10 - 00:31:37:22
Dr Keri
There's no shame in any of this. But in that kind of burnout place where I was in my like, I was 46 or something at the time. And part of that I had these horrendous, like absolutely grim. We will not go into the details, but, very, very troubling pelvic symptoms. And I was very newly in a relationship and my very quickly realised that it was like on day 12 every month, like life got pretty, pretty scary.
00:31:37:22 - 00:32:00:08
Dr Keri
And it was in his calendar and it was in his calendar for about 18 months. He would literally get an alert because I would not be okay and I would be trying my hardest to deal with whatever I was dealing with. And it didn't go on for 18 months. But what I would hear from him is that every now and again he would then after things were okay, be like, oh, but aren't you do today?
00:32:00:08 - 00:32:05:14
Dr Keri
And I'd be like, mate. How do you like what? Give me.
00:32:05:14 - 00:32:06:01
Dr Keri
Your phone.
00:32:06:02 - 00:32:07:20
Dr Keri
What's the one?
00:32:07:22 - 00:32:08:18
Dr Keri
And he was.
00:32:08:19 - 00:32:09:13
Dr Keri
Which is.
00:32:09:16 - 00:32:09:23
Dr Keri
You know.
00:32:10:00 - 00:32:10:14
Dr Keri
Like.
00:32:10:15 - 00:32:45:19
Dr Keri
That was the first time I'd experienced that in any kind of long partnership. And it was so simple. It was the simplest thing, and it was free, and it didn't cost him. And he didn't have to spend hours working something out. He didn't have to, like, renovate the bathroom on day 12 every month. He just needed to understand that I was going to be really struggling, and that I was doing everything I possibly could to sort myself out, and that care and kindness is just so, so lovely to be on the, you know, to have obviously.
00:32:45:19 - 00:32:50:23
Dr Keri
And if more men understood that there'd be less friction in most households, you know.
00:32:51:01 - 00:32:52:06
Chris
Picking up where you put them down.
00:32:52:07 - 00:33:27:08
Filly
Yeah. Men my daughter are about were pretty, pretty in sync with our cycle where one starts and then a few days later the other one does. But as you're talking, it's been very interesting because she's pretty new to her period. But it's like I can totally notice the the fluctuations and the changes. And initially she had a pretty big meltdown and wasn't the best parenting situation on my behalf.
00:33:27:08 - 00:33:45:14
Filly
But after that, I was like, oh, you got your period the next day. That's why. So which was good learning as a mother as well, that it's like if I'm noticing different cues that show off, it's like, give her a bit of space and grace and a bit more care because she's just going through something a bit hormonally at the moment.
00:33:45:14 - 00:33:50:01
Filly
And in a week's time, she'll be back to her perky self.
00:33:50:03 - 00:33:50:19
Dr Keri
And I love.
00:33:50:20 - 00:33:56:06
Dr Keri
That you say that, because I will often talk to my Perry clients and give them that.
00:33:56:06 - 00:33:56:20
Dr Keri
Exact.
00:33:56:22 - 00:34:29:18
Dr Keri
Same advice. And I would say to them, like, you know, and if they do have teenage daughters, even more so, but I would say, would you tell your teenage daughter to just suck it up, get on with it, stop making up the brain fog. Stop. Did it all the hard, horrible things that we say to ourselves. If we're having a tricky week or a tricky month, or we're going through a season of change because we are basically going through reverse puberty, the, you know, similar process is happening just back to front.
00:34:29:23 - 00:34:43:19
Dr Keri
Would we what kind of care would we offer our 12 year old daughter? Would we give some of that even just a fraction of that to ourselves, instead of being like, you know. Come on. Yeah.
00:34:43:20 - 00:34:46:19
Filly
What's there to school.
00:34:46:21 - 00:34:47:19
Dr Keri
Off your pop?
00:34:47:19 - 00:34:49:04
Chris
Yeah, off you.
00:34:49:06 - 00:34:51:12
Filly
Get off the TV, go for a hike.
00:34:51:13 - 00:35:02:10
Chris
Wonder what it's going to be like when our youngest. We have two daughters. Oh. I hope you all sync up.
00:35:02:11 - 00:35:03:11
Filly
Yeah, it makes it easy.
00:35:03:15 - 00:35:08:12
Dr Keri
You and it just be like, okay, this is. This is the week where things are going to be special.
00:35:08:14 - 00:35:09:19
Dr Keri
And.
00:35:09:21 - 00:35:10:05
Chris
Yeah.
00:35:10:05 - 00:35:12:02
Chris
Be very straightforward.
00:35:12:03 - 00:35:15:16
Chris
I bet you it won't.
00:35:15:18 - 00:35:17:02
Dr Keri
You will have one week a.
00:35:17:02 - 00:35:22:06
Dr Keri
Month to yourself.
00:35:22:08 - 00:35:44:17
Filly
You you touched on the physical changes that are happening in the perimenopause phase. What about metaphysical kind of like identity, peace, emotions, psychosocial stuff.. Because it's a big change. It's not just a physical change. It's like so much else is changing.
00:35:44:19 - 00:36:12:05
Dr Keri
It's massive. And I feel really, really, really strongly about this because I think my generation, you know, and perhaps even the, you know, the those that are five, ten years older than me, we didn't necessarily see our mothers do menopause. It wasn't necessarily I mean, some of us potentially, yes. But I think cross-culturally we didn't see this Elden Ring process.
00:36:12:07 - 00:36:53:02
Dr Keri
We saw women trying as hard as they could to be everything to everyone and stay as young as possible and then kind of just vanish potentially, you know, and that's a generalisation. But I think that was certainly, you know, has been my experience and a lot of clients that I speak to and friends that I speak to, that that's they're kind of, you know, what even is this Elden Ring process that we're in if you want to use that language, I do think it is a really spiritual process and that can look whatever that word means to you, depending on your faith, depending on what kind of, you know relationship you have with God or,
00:36:53:08 - 00:37:03:14
Dr Keri
you know, the universe. I personally feel like it has.
00:37:03:16 - 00:37:30:20
Dr Keri
Deepened my trusty myself and deepen my trust in everything that's bigger than than me. And I think that has been really helpful for me to kind of really anchor into. And so I can imagine, you know, those with even stronger, structured faith might find that really, really helpful. I think often in a lot of faith, there is a proper Elden Ring process.
00:37:30:20 - 00:37:46:03
Dr Keri
And when you get older, you've got a job and a role and a function that's really valuable. And so I do feel like there's an opportunity. I'm not necessarily a hugely hopeful person by.
00:37:46:03 - 00:37:46:22
Dr Keri
Personality.
00:37:46:22 - 00:38:19:07
Dr Keri
But I really am hopeful in this era that we're in and the kind of generation that we are that there's an opportunity to create that eldership role in a way that's functional and meaningful, and gives some balance to the very youth obsessed culture that we in. But at the minute, it is kind of it feels a little bit like ice picking, like being the first one to ice pick your way to the top of everything.
00:38:19:09 - 00:38:46:17
Filly
Yeah, yeah. It's so interesting because I don't I can't think of a narrative that I use and I haven't heard it from you, Chris, around like, you know, ageing being bad, wrinkles being bad or ugly. But our youngest, she will regularly say to me, you're so wrinkly, you're so old. And she'll say it in a negative tone, like a ill,
00:38:46:19 - 00:39:08:01
Filly
And so I'm like, where the heck? Because you didn't get it from us. So obviously, like just culture and society at large, whether it's the things that she's watching through technology or the conversations that are happening at school, it's it's so interesting. And every time she says it, I stand in my power and I'm like, I love my wrinkles.
00:39:08:03 - 00:39:33:21
Filly
Yeah, I love my wrinkles. Because, like, I'm living and I am getting older and I love getting older, I feel the best I've ever felt in my whole life physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally. And I'm hoping that that's like seeding into her psyche because she's still saying it. But it was just interesting, as you were saying, that I'm like, it's so like it is.
00:39:33:23 - 00:39:44:02
Filly
Yeah. It's like the obsession with youth as being like the better thing, when personally my experience is I'm loving getting older.
00:39:44:04 - 00:39:54:11
Dr Keri
Yeah. Well, there's I mean, life experience doesn't come any other way than literally having been here for a long time.
00:39:54:13 - 00:39:55:04
Dr Keri
Yeah.
00:39:55:07 - 00:40:25:03
Dr Keri
And it sounds so obvious, but I feel like I follow Doctor Sarah McKay. She's a brain brain scientist. I want to give her. Correct, correct title. Very, very fabulous scientist here in Australia. And she's posting a lot about brain changes in midlife and all these sorts of things. I saw a beautiful post from her about the.
00:40:25:05 - 00:40:26:07
Dr Keri
Astronauts.
00:40:26:08 - 00:40:32:17
Dr Keri
And she was very cleverly just saying they didn't send 20 year olds to space kids. All of them were.
00:40:32:17 - 00:40:33:20
Dr Keri
Gen Z.
00:40:33:22 - 00:40:55:19
Dr Keri
You know, and it was their experience and their politics and their, you know, life skills and being able to deal with change and adversity and whatever else was on that list of the skill set that you needed to have. They were all in their late 40s, early 50s. And I.
00:40:55:19 - 00:40:56:16
Dr Keri
Was like, well.
00:40:56:20 - 00:40:57:03
Dr Keri
Thank you.
00:40:57:03 - 00:40:58:05
Dr Keri
Very much.
00:40:58:07 - 00:41:12:12
Filly
Yeah, yeah. Chris is very much getting into acting, and I think I might have made a remark. It's like you're a bit old to make it now. And he's like, no. And he wrote it off. All these people that became famous actors.
00:41:12:14 - 00:41:13:07
Chris
All of the ones.
00:41:13:08 - 00:41:40:09
Filly
And then, I don't know, because of the conversation, I think I was getting stuff in my feed around like, and this person became a really successful business owner in their 50s and this one in their 60s and this one in their 70s. And I'm like, well, it makes sense because we're so much wiser and talented and skilful. And, you know, if you've done some healing work generally, like that sense of self and groundedness in self is like, you become unstoppable.
00:41:40:10 - 00:41:40:22
Chris
Sure.
00:41:40:23 - 00:41:46:23
Filly
With without that push prove and defend energy of like a have to do it.
00:41:47:01 - 00:41:47:14
Dr Keri
Yes.
00:41:47:15 - 00:42:07:05
Dr Keri
And so many of our skills really are transferable. You know, like we've, you know, navigated things, grown businesses, grown whole people. You know, there's so much of our life skill that we can then put into action in other ways.
00:42:07:07 - 00:42:07:14
Dr Keri
Yeah.
00:42:07:15 - 00:42:21:02
Dr Keri
Yeah, I think there's a need to be. Yeah. This kind of notion that you fall off a cliff at some particular age, I think is very unhelpful. And it works quite dangerous.
00:42:21:04 - 00:42:23:02
Dr Keri
Yeah.
00:42:23:04 - 00:42:39:13
Filly
Okay. So if we're having a conversation about pause, we have to talk about HRT. We have to because everyone always asks me this question. It's like what are your thoughts about HRT. What are your thoughts.
00:42:39:18 - 00:42:43:21
Dr Keri
Doctor Kerry many thoughts.
00:42:43:23 - 00:43:14:02
Dr Keri
Look, I am never and I can apply this answer to pretty much literally everything. I'm never anti anything. It's always. And what's the you know situation that I'm applying this to. Right. So I think if and I've got lots of clients who are taking HRT and they're still having acupuncture, I've got lots of clients who are coming for acupuncture because they don't want to take HRT or can't or have decided for whatever reason, it's not right for them.
00:43:14:03 - 00:43:46:04
Dr Keri
HRT does what it says on the tin. In an ideal world, I'm not against our like bandaid therapies. There's often times where there are some really, really, really difficult symptomology and you need them addressed very swiftly, and then you can go back and have a look at what else is going on. Yeah. Medical menopause, for example. You absolutely need the care of somebody to prescribe you HRT.
00:43:46:06 - 00:44:20:07
Dr Keri
If you've just had surgery, your ovaries taken out or something else going on. Absolutely. There's very little point from my clinical experience, unless you've got some other medical situation to just decide to raw dog that that experience, that would be very, very hard. Yeah. There is an enormous amount of fear based selling of HRT on Instagram by US doctors because they can do different things over.
00:44:20:07 - 00:44:21:10
Dr Keri
There.
00:44:21:11 - 00:44:52:02
Dr Keri
That is not based in actual data. That is not helpful. I think women should have the education and access to medical practitioners and medications. I think that should just be the kind of ground that we're all starting on. I don't think it's the well, I know, I know from my own clinical experience, it's not a one stop magic wand fix for everything.
00:44:52:04 - 00:44:53:18
Dr Keri
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:53:20 - 00:44:58:18
Filly
Amen. That is, that is that is how I feel as well. And I think too because.
00:44:58:19 - 00:44:59:17
Chris
This is the, this is the.
00:44:59:17 - 00:45:01:00
Dr Keri
Way this is, this is.
00:45:01:00 - 00:45:10:05
Filly
The way. Like it's not a. Yeah I think when we because there are some practitioners that are very anti it's like never take anything.
00:45:10:05 - 00:45:10:20
Dr Keri
Prescribed.
00:45:10:20 - 00:45:23:06
Filly
From a doctor. And I think that that's actually very unhelpful, especially for those women who are in a crisis point with some symptoms that could actually be dialled down really quickly.
00:45:23:08 - 00:45:24:17
Dr Keri
00:45:24:19 - 00:45:28:07
Chris
It's black and white. It's all or nothing, you know, like. Yeah.
00:45:28:08 - 00:45:30:14
Dr Keri
And I just don't think.
00:45:30:16 - 00:45:49:13
Dr Keri
That there's, there needs to be in all healthcare. And look, it's tricky because your average GP, for a start, needs to know everything about everything from grandad's heart issue to the eight week olds rash. Okay.
00:45:49:18 - 00:45:50:11
Dr Keri
So I mean.
00:45:50:12 - 00:46:41:17
Dr Keri
That's not exactly fair and reasonable to expect that person to suddenly also be a HRT expert, right? So I think, you know, accessing health care where they really have had the time to really understand that. The study that I often reference was in 2021, where they did a study looking at women's perception of their education of, HRT and what they do or don't know about it, and whether the medical profession actually even know anything about it, and the the planned outcomes after that study were that they needed to basically revamp the entire education system.
00:46:41:18 - 00:47:22:17
Dr Keri
You know, that is going to take some some time. So finding the right person to prescribe you something might actually be harder than you think. And that's unfortunate, but you really do need to advocate for yourself. Yeah. But then knowing if you know one, understand that it isn't a one stop shop, that it's not all about crashing oestrogen levels and that it is about nervous system, health, endocrine system, health, diet that you can, you know, get care from a bunch of different places as well.
00:47:22:17 - 00:47:30:04
Dr Keri
And again, that's not easy. And I wish it was, come and see me on the Gold Coast. I don't know if I'd do an acupuncturist.
00:47:30:04 - 00:47:33:14
Dr Keri
Where have you live? But,
00:47:33:15 - 00:47:48:03
Dr Keri
We do need to take ownership and responsibility and go, okay, this is unfortunate that I didn't get educated before now, but I'm here now. There is not actually going to be one person to save me. And that can be incredibly frustrating.
00:47:48:05 - 00:47:51:20
Dr Keri
Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
00:47:51:22 - 00:47:55:12
Filly
And then there's like gut health and detox suffocation.
00:47:55:13 - 00:47:56:05
Dr Keri
And.
00:47:56:07 - 00:48:21:00
Filly
Or like all the other body systems and all the different like energetic emotional parts of us or, or so closely interacting with the sex hormones. There's also to a difference between synthetic HRT and bioidentical forms of HRT as well. So the latter the body will actually process and metabolise and respond to in a.
00:48:21:02 - 00:48:22:11
Dr Keri
More different way.
00:48:22:14 - 00:48:24:21
Filly
Yeah, in a different way. Yeah.
00:48:24:22 - 00:48:26:05
Dr Keri
Okay.
00:48:26:07 - 00:48:27:20
Dr Keri
Yeah. As long as your liver.
00:48:27:20 - 00:48:29:22
Dr Keri
Detoxification pathways are also talking.
00:48:29:23 - 00:48:34:08
Dr Keri
To you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:48:34:10 - 00:48:56:21
Filly
Okay. Last last question around perimenopause. What are your go to toolbox? If someone is having some SOS or needing some SOS support around their hormones, and then also long term interventions, healing protocols.
00:48:56:23 - 00:49:00:13
Dr Keri
Oh, look, I'm an acupuncturist.
00:49:00:13 - 00:49:02:14
Dr Keri
I'm going to say, you know, acupuncture.
00:49:02:15 - 00:49:39:20
Dr Keri
Absolutely. It is going to support like it's going to support all of you. So if your health concerns are because of stress, long term stress, history of burnout, then even if you do need and eventually end up with HRT, it's not going to sort that out, you know what I mean? So seeing somebody who eventually can help you piece together some of your pieces so that you might end up going to see a GP first and getting hot tea, and maybe that will be helpful for you.
00:49:39:21 - 00:50:07:05
Dr Keri
Right. And to leave it at that I think is not ideal. Yeah, yeah. Looking at stress really, really, really honest honestly is it would be one of the first things where can I cut out some things. Where can I improve my sleep. Where can I eat more green things? Is it possible to drink less wine and eat less sugar?
00:50:07:06 - 00:50:19:03
Dr Keri
Like start with the basics before you then start. You know, I've got a lot of clients. Oh, I've taken all the menopause herbs and they don't work for me. And it's like, well, were they were actually right for you.
00:50:19:06 - 00:50:19:20
Dr Keri
Yeah.
00:50:19:22 - 00:50:22:03
Filly
And whether you're in place.
00:50:22:03 - 00:50:25:21
Dr Keri
As well, like with the foundations of place, because if you're.
00:50:25:23 - 00:50:26:15
Dr Keri
Not eating.
00:50:26:16 - 00:50:27:17
Dr Keri
Then.
00:50:27:19 - 00:50:31:06
Dr Keri
All the yeah, all the herbs in the world aren't going.
00:50:31:06 - 00:50:34:13
Dr Keri
In necessarily sides.
00:50:34:15 - 00:50:47:12
Filly
Yeah. I have a client who. So in conjunction with working with us, she regularly gets acupuncture I think every every two weeks. And she like she's like my cycle, my hormones.
00:50:47:12 - 00:50:50:12
Dr Keri
So good. Yeah.
00:50:50:14 - 00:51:11:03
Filly
And this is going way back another client because of Covid. I don't think there were acupuncturists. I think that was like state dependent. But she couldn't get into her acupuncturist because a lockdown and noticed a massive, like, negative impact because of that with her hormones.
00:51:11:05 - 00:51:13:05
Dr Keri
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:51:13:06 - 00:51:17:03
Dr Keri
And stress of Covid absolutely would have flung everything out of.
00:51:17:06 - 00:51:19:06
Dr Keri
Yeah out of. Yes for sure.
00:51:19:07 - 00:51:24:23
Filly
Yes. There were layers. Okay. So thank you so much for sharing.
00:51:25:00 - 00:51:25:23
Dr Keri
All of.
00:51:26:02 - 00:51:49:23
Filly
All of that good stuff. I think it's a conversation that we need to have more of more regularly. And Chris and I also really excited because you're coming into our Ending Body Burnout Method program when this podcast release, you'll actually be coming in the following week, and we will be focusing more on emotional wellbeing from a Chinese medicine perspective.
00:51:50:05 - 00:51:55:02
Filly
Are you happy to give a little teaser around where you'll be guiding our clients?
00:51:55:04 - 00:51:56:01
Dr Keri
We'll be.
00:51:56:04 - 00:52:30:04
Dr Keri
We'll be chatting all about the water element in TCM, which relates to the kidneys, to the adrenals, to the Chinese medicine spirit of the G, which roughly translates as the will power. So often, you know, willpower gets a bit of a bad rap because, like we've just said, you try and push through, but there's ways to nourish that element so that you've got long term energy and long term fuel and not just running on hot, fast fuel.
00:52:30:07 - 00:52:31:06
Dr Keri
Yes.
00:52:31:08 - 00:52:51:17
Filly
So good. I can't wait to get more of your goodness. And you also have a couple of courses. So you've got your perimenopause course for practitioners. And also your emotional wellbeing course. Can you talk into that. And I'll make sure that the show notes.
00:52:51:18 - 00:52:54:18
Dr Keri
Had the link and disclaimer.
00:52:54:20 - 00:53:30:17
Dr Keri
Thank you. Yeah. The Perry for practitioner class is has been running for three years now. So I did the most recent live version at the beginning of this year. There are a good few hours of me talking about all sorts of content. There's articles, workbooks, audios in there to really cover all elements of clinical practice and all of the things that you're likely to see your clients come in with and to be able to support them with however you treat, whether it's with herbs, with acupuncture, of course, or even if you're a GP.
00:53:30:17 - 00:53:35:22
Dr Keri
But to be able to really lean into that. Chinese medicine wisdom.
00:53:36:03 - 00:53:36:19
Dr Keri
00:53:36:21 - 00:53:54:22
Dr Keri
You know, we've been treating women in this season of life. The oldest textbooks date back 2000 years. So it's one of those things where it's not seen as a sudden illness. It's something that we've been treating in the course of every season of life.
00:53:54:23 - 00:53:56:09
Dr Keri
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:56:11 - 00:53:59:09
Filly
That's cool. And I think you've got a discount code to.
00:53:59:12 - 00:54:01:13
Dr Keri
Yeah.
00:54:01:15 - 00:54:03:13
Dr Keri
25% off use code, silly.
00:54:03:14 - 00:54:07:01
Filly
Awesome. We'll make sure all of that is in the show notes.
00:54:07:03 - 00:54:07:13
Dr Keri
Thank you.
00:54:07:14 - 00:54:12:08
Dr Keri
So much love. Thank you so much. This has been just such. I hope.
00:54:12:10 - 00:54:13:07
Dr Keri
So good.
00:54:13:08 - 00:54:29:00
Chris
Thanks for telling you. It's amazing. And thanks everybody. We'll we'll invite you to check out the links down below. And thanks everyone for joining us. We'll get to you next time. Thanks.
00:54:29:02 - 00:54:29:14
Dr Keri
Thank you.
00:54:29:14 - 00:54:39:00
Filly
So much for listening. We so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love by sharing this episode.
00:54:39:06 - 00:54:57:18
Chris
You can also rate your own state of burnout and the root cause contributors by taking our Ending Body Burnout assessment on our website. And if you're interested in learning about our group or one on one ending body burnout programs, shoot us a DM via Instagram or Facebook. Have the best day ever.
