00:00:03:08 - 00:00:17:20
Chris
Hello and welcome to the Ending Body Burnout Show. We are your host Chris and Filly, co-founders of a multi-award winning functional medicine practice serving busy people with energy, mood and gut issues. While busyness.
00:00:17:20 - 00:00:25:01
Filly
Addictive doing, people pleasing and perfectionism might be the norm, it's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
00:00:25:02 - 00:00:38:07
Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic root root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplement hoping something might stick.
00:00:38:08 - 00:00:46:13
Filly
So get ready to heal your body, get your spark back deeply, connect with yourself, and step into the life of your dreams.
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Chris
Let's dive in.
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Filly
Welcome to the podcast. Today Chris and I are talking with the amazing doctor Andrea Robertson. If you're watching this on YouTube, you will see how gorgeous and wonderful and vibrant Andrea is. I call her a little ray of sunshine and she is so smiley throughout this whole interview, and it really has been a joy having a conversation with her.
00:01:20:03 - 00:01:45:18
Filly
And I know that you're going to love this as well, because she is just so lovable. So today we're going to dive in to talking about the impact that inflammation has on weight gain and weight loss resistance, how we can use foods to reduce inflammation and shift stubborn weight, and what you should think about if you're considering or are using GLP ones or weight loss medication.
00:01:45:18 - 00:02:15:23
Filly
Because it's pretty hard these days, I think, to have a conversation about weight loss without talking into GLP ones and weight loss medications because they are so prolific now with a lot of people using them. But I think the more we can understand them, and also the more that we can understand the body and ways that we can also naturally support the body, regardless of whether you're using medication or not, is all power to you.
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Filly
So a little bit about Doctor Andrea Robertson before we dive in. She is an osteopath, natural path nutritionist with over 25 years of clinical experience helping women get to the root of inflammation, hormonal imbalance and gut health issues. Alongside her clinical career. Andrea has also had a professional dance career, including performing at the Moorland Rouge in Paris. After building and running a successful allied health clinic for 15 years, she now works globally online, hosting the podcast Nourish Hill and Rise and leading hundreds of women through her signature three week inflammation detox and 12 week Whole Health Solution programs.
00:02:58:15 - 00:03:15:04
Filly
Andrea is known for cutting through the noise on perimenopause and midlife health, giving women practical, know extreme strategies to feel like themselves again. All right, let's dive into today's conversation.
00:03:15:06 - 00:03:26:17
Chris
Welcome, everybody, to this episode of the Ending Body Burnout Show. Filly and I have a guest on today. We have Andrea Robertson. Thanks so much for joining us today. Andrea.
00:03:26:19 - 00:03:30:22
Dr Andrea
Awesome to be here with you guys. Yay!
00:03:31:00 - 00:03:43:02
Filly
Listeners would have just heard me finishing off your bio that you're a dancer in Milan Rouge. I don't know if anyone's time. We were just like doing a little dance together. It's so good.
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Dr Andrea
Space for a shimmy in my life.
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Chris
So good.
00:03:47:16 - 00:04:10:20
Filly
Oh, dear. Okay, now when we have a beautiful guest on our podcast, especially if they're in the health space, they're a practitioner themselves. We love to, like, learn why you do what you do. And usually there's your own personal health journey story underneath the passion and the purpose that you're rippling out into the world. So let's dive into there.
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Filly
What did it look like when you had body burnout and chronic health issues?
00:04:16:21 - 00:04:44:11
Dr Andrea
Well, I guess the starting point for me fairly was even way, way, way before that, I took it into healthcare in the first place. So I've been in osteopath for 26 years now, and I did that straight out of high school. So I got into that when I was 18 and started studying osteopathy. But before that, as you just mentioned, I was a dancer and I did classical ballet from the age of three and always had little kind of niggly injuries and used to go to a local chiropractor in the country town in Victoria where I grew up.
00:04:44:13 - 00:05:02:05
Dr Andrea
I didn't know about at the time. There wasn't any locally to us. And so yeah, he would just treat me and I'd feel better. And so when Mum and Dad were, you know. Although I wanted to be was a ballerina. Mum and dad were like, let's have a backup plan. And which is why it's very wise because it's very hard to get ahead in ballet.
00:05:02:05 - 00:05:20:22
Dr Andrea
And so I was like, all right, I'll be a chiropractor. Like, like, you know, this man and he I spoke to him and he's like, actually, I practice more like an osteopath. And so that sort of led me into looking into osteopathy. And I got into that. So there was no major kind of health event that led me into osteopathy, but it was just I really loved how he helped me.
00:05:20:22 - 00:05:46:00
Dr Andrea
And and then I looked forward to helping others in that way. But if, you know, if I backtrack even further, really. So this is a I did some, some, some like deep kind of personal growth work a lot in my early 30s. And one of the things I learned was that my three of my strong characteristics came from different times in my life.
00:05:46:00 - 00:06:08:20
Dr Andrea
And so when I was seven years old, I actually helped my mum do CPR and my nan when she was passing away. And I remember it didn't work. And I remember saying to myself as a seven year old, or if I can't save Nan, I'll just save everyone else. Like, I really remember that clearly. And so I think that brought about this beautiful, caring kind of part of my nature that makes me want to really help people.
00:06:08:21 - 00:06:38:12
Dr Andrea
So they have gone back, right, right, right back. But then the big thing that led me to add naturopathy and nutrition in after I had studied osteopathy and had been practising for many years, was I was living in Sydney and I was still dancing professionally. This was after I'd been in Paris and Spain and around the world, and come back to Sydney in my late 20s and early 30s, and I used to dance in shows probably five nights a week, and we'd have rehearsals through the different days as well.
00:06:38:12 - 00:06:56:03
Dr Andrea
And so at the time I was doing three, like three set days of osteopathy work, but a lot of other clinics in Sydney would know that I wasn't full time as an osteopath. And so I would often get asked, how can you fill in at our clinic for four weeks, and can you fill in here for four weeks on this particular day or whatever?
00:06:56:03 - 00:06:58:10
Dr Andrea
And so I had said, yes.
00:06:58:12 - 00:06:59:20
Filly
Yes, yes to.
00:06:59:20 - 00:07:02:21
Filly
Many things.
00:07:02:23 - 00:07:17:01
Dr Andrea
Said yes to many things. And so I ended up with a 12 week block where I was seeing 80 patients a week and a normal full time load as an osteopath is 50 patients a week, which is still a lot. A lot of us pass on. You see about 30 patients a week really for a full time load.
00:07:17:01 - 00:07:33:07
Dr Andrea
And then I was going straight from, you know, all day in the clinic to dancing the shows six nights a week and on week ten over sitting, training a patient, you know, when you have those moments in your life that you can clearly see the scene still like this is one of those ones. I can see myself in the room still.
00:07:33:07 - 00:07:52:11
Dr Andrea
And so I was sitting, treating a patient with my hands on her head and treating her neck, and the whole right side of my body started to go into spasm and my jaw locked up, and I couldn't open my mouth and everything went into spasm. And I like, really kind of contracted. And I just, I just walked out on her like, I didn't even say anything to her.
00:07:52:11 - 00:08:12:01
Dr Andrea
And I said to my walk to my receptionist and said, something's wrong with me. And she was like, oh yes, it is. So we had a GP across the road and he we she walked me across to him. He kept me there for 20 minutes and then put me in an ambulance to the hospital, and that kept me in for two days.
00:08:12:07 - 00:08:32:01
Dr Andrea
I had every test under the sun and I don't know, like in my head, in my head, I was actually not going to find anything wrong with me. That was all I said to myself. I'm not going to find a thing wrong. Kind of new. Yeah. And anyway, so I sent home with a migraine without a headache, was the diagnosis, so I didn't have a headache or a migraine at all.
00:08:32:01 - 00:08:48:23
Dr Andrea
But that was the diagnosis. And I proceeded to get sicker and sicker and sicker because I was told I was all normal. So I went back to work, and I went back to dancing and doing all of that stuff. And over the next, I can't actually remember the next time frame how long that was. It might have been another month.
00:08:48:23 - 00:09:11:04
Dr Andrea
I think that I started putting on weight, which I never had before, and that was a problem. As a dancer like you have a real expectation to not put on weight when you're in tiny little costumes, but it was a different kind of weight. Like, it was weird because my rings were tight, my shoes were leaving marks on my feet, but all my clothes still fit, so I'd put on ten kilos.
00:09:11:04 - 00:09:31:02
Dr Andrea
But it was weird. Ten kilos. Like it was not like a fat gain, ten kilos. And anyway. But I just keep pushing. And then I was, because I was putting on weight, I started running in the morning. So I was going running to try and like, lose weight and, you know, beat that challenge. And, and I remember this.
00:09:31:04 - 00:09:49:01
Dr Andrea
There was this day that it was absolute rock bottom day. And I'd been working in a clinic in the city. And then I had to in the morning. And then I used to work in another clinic in the afternoon at of the city, and there was a spot in Sydney where I could park my car for no car parking fees.
00:09:49:03 - 00:10:09:05
Dr Andrea
But it was a half hour walk from the city clinic, so my lunch break was spent walking the half hour, getting my car, eating lunch in the car, driving to the next clinic like that was my lunch break. And so I got to my car this day and there was no car keys because they'd fallen out of my bag in the first clinic.
00:10:09:07 - 00:10:24:04
Dr Andrea
And so the the around the receptionist, she put the car keys in a taxi, sent the taxi to me. I could see him. He was driving up and down. He couldn't see me even though I was waving at him. And when he finally saw me, he got out of the car and he yelled at me. And I was first into tears, like it was like the it was the end.
00:10:24:04 - 00:10:42:17
Dr Andrea
And I remember sitting in the car crying, going, I can't keep doing this like something's really wrong with me. I felt depressed, which I never feel depressed. I can always such a happy person. And yeah, it was over thinking like, if this is what life is, I don't want to be here. Like it was a really deep, sorry, a really dark little moment.
00:10:42:18 - 00:11:00:16
Dr Andrea
And I had in the meantime been suggested as an actor path. And so I think it was another week or two until I had a day off that I could go and see her. Like I didn't even take a day off work where I could have seen her sooner. I didn't feel I was how bad I was, but I started drinking coffee, which I'd never drank coffee before because I had no energy.
00:11:00:16 - 00:11:21:17
Dr Andrea
So I needed this kind of coffee hit to get me going. And yeah, anyway, I saw this beautiful natural path who then became my mentor and a dear friend. I actually saw her at a conference on the weekend, which was amazing. And Amber has sitting there and going, oh darling, it all makes sense. You know, someone just to say that to you.
00:11:21:17 - 00:11:40:14
Dr Andrea
And so in you know, at that time I hadn't studied naturopathy and so she'd sort of said to me, you know, all your elimination systems are stop working. At the time she got me on some supplements, I don't, I don't remember what they were. Herbs and supplements, definitely magnesium, but I don't remember the rest. I should actually ask her for my original treatment plan.
00:11:40:14 - 00:11:52:05
Dr Andrea
I'd be interested to know. And. And I remember sitting on the toilet and I peed out seven kilos of fluid in a weekend. So it was all fluid retention. Was that weight gain?
00:11:52:07 - 00:11:53:14
Filly
Yeah. Crazy.
00:11:53:16 - 00:12:13:19
Dr Andrea
The whole ten kilos came off in a week. But I remember that first weekend I literally sat on the toilet and peed every 30 minutes. It was really interesting. And but I was left with really bad fatigue. And then she'd done some tests and stuff and came back. My urinary iodine, my thorough, you know, food for my thyroid was really, really low, like severely depleted.
00:12:13:19 - 00:12:37:08
Dr Andrea
So got on some iodine drops and that really helped. But that's been an ongoing thing in my little world for a long time. And I still have to support my thyroid in that way. But I got off gluten, dairy, sugar strictly. And I stuck with that for three years. And, you know, it took probably three months to feel 60% better, but it took three years to fill 80% better.
00:12:37:08 - 00:12:56:20
Dr Andrea
And then it was after that. Then I really learned more about ultra processed foods and cut out everything with any kind of additive preservative number thing. And that's also at the time where I started studying natural beauty cells, getting a deeper understanding myself, and really got back to full health after about ten years.
00:12:56:22 - 00:12:59:03
Filly
Yeah, that.
00:12:59:05 - 00:13:14:10
Filly
Just a lot of that sounds very similar to my own health journey. And it was like it was ten years, ten years from like I'm actively now trying to figure out what's going on and then supporting and healing to actually feel like really whole and complete.
00:13:14:10 - 00:13:16:02
Dr Andrea
So yeah, that's right.
00:13:16:02 - 00:13:16:17
Filly
Yeah.
00:13:16:19 - 00:13:39:04
Dr Andrea
That's right. So I did that felt really whole and complete. And then I decided to do IVF. So the whole thing started again. And that was another, you know, having more knowledge and four rounds of that where it didn't work. But it's such an assault on your body to go through all of that medication. But I'm sure that took another good six years to feel really back to being fully well again after that.
00:13:39:05 - 00:13:39:19
Filly
Yeah.
00:13:40:01 - 00:13:45:17
Filly
How did you support yourself post the IVF or was it just time that took?
00:13:45:19 - 00:14:03:18
Dr Andrea
It was this time and it was back to back to doing what I was doing the whole way through, which was really, you know, eating. I've always had to stick with gluten and dairy free because otherwise my body can get quite inflamed. I can have a little bit of sugar from time to time, and, and I stay off of processed foods.
00:14:03:19 - 00:14:21:09
Dr Andrea
Just they're not good for us. So it was just getting back into those. But at the time to, like, I was running a really big clinic in Adelaide. So along the way, I'd opened a clinic and I had upwards of well, at any given time I had 30 staff because it was a clinic and two fitness studios that I had set up and was running.
00:14:21:09 - 00:14:33:02
Dr Andrea
And so I think the high level of stress and pushing really hard every day was probably, you know, probably, well, not probably, definitely would have slowed down my healing from the IVF.
00:14:33:03 - 00:14:34:21
Filly
Yeah.
00:14:34:23 - 00:14:59:13
Filly
Okay. So all this journey that you've been on, you now all of working with women to help them reduce inflammation and also as a bonus, weight loss, and you're looking at it very differently from an energy and energy out like, let's just thrash the body and eat really low calorie and lose weight because that doesn't work. Can you explain why that doesn't work?
00:14:59:13 - 00:15:08:02
Filly
And also this connection between insulin resistance and stubborn weight gain and inflammation?
00:15:08:04 - 00:15:08:22
Dr Andrea
Oh my gosh. Yes.
00:15:08:23 - 00:15:10:07
Filly
So many good things there.
00:15:10:09 - 00:15:34:15
Dr Andrea
All right let's talk about it. So number one calories in verses calories out was one of the things you said. And it's such an old fashioned kaput kind of way of looking at weight loss. Because you could have an avocado and a can of Coca Cola and they would have the same calories, I think. In fact, they do like that's my don't don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure they're very similar amount of calories.
00:15:34:20 - 00:15:35:18
Filly
But one.
00:15:35:19 - 00:15:55:09
Dr Andrea
Yeah one is beautifully supportive and nutritional for your body. And it has so many lovely other elements. And a can of Coke is just not not even food. It's just rubbish. And so if you were doing calorie counting, like it just doesn't work. And I still have I still have clients that I work with that are very like when I, when they work with me, they're like, what?
00:15:55:09 - 00:15:57:04
Dr Andrea
We don't count calories. I'm like.
00:15:57:04 - 00:15:57:22
Filly
No.
00:15:58:00 - 00:16:04:01
Dr Andrea
I want you to learn to listen to your body like we're not counting calories. And I had one recently. She's like, well, I'm just going to do it anyway. And all.
00:16:04:02 - 00:16:04:17
Filly
Right.
00:16:04:19 - 00:16:05:07
Dr Andrea
You do you.
00:16:05:07 - 00:16:06:03
Filly
But.
00:16:06:05 - 00:16:23:09
Dr Andrea
You don't have to. And after about and she'd been counting calories and tracking and not losing any weight for months. And she started following my little system and was eating more calories, but really not enjoying the fact that she was eating more calories because she thought that was going to mean she put on weight and then she lost weight.
00:16:23:10 - 00:16:47:23
Dr Andrea
Yeah, and it took about four weeks of her actually learning to trust her body and actually learning to trust what I was teaching her, that she let the tracking go. But yeah, the calories in colour is out piece as you would know, it doesn't doesn't work. It's not equal calories not equal. And I would probably I mean, I don't count my calories, but I imagine I would have a very high calorie diet and I don't ever put on weight because I ate a lot of really good, healthy fats.
00:16:47:23 - 00:17:09:19
Dr Andrea
And they're high in calories. But healthy fats are so good for us and so good for almost like we need those in us. But then what I look at for a weight loss perspective is to get the body healthy. And I think, really, a healthy body will then lose weight if there's weight to lose. And weight loss really becomes a beautiful side effect of getting healthy.
00:17:09:19 - 00:17:39:14
Dr Andrea
And where I look at getting healthy is a whole body systems approach, where we look at reducing systemic inflammation because if the body is inflamed, it will never lose weight. And so we do that through many different ways. But focusing always of course, on nutrition finding. I helped my clients find the really best anti-inflammatory diet for them. Like there's some blanket kind of basics, but then it has to be tweaked for the individual.
00:17:39:16 - 00:18:03:21
Dr Andrea
And then we look at healing all of the different body systems. And so one of the things you were pointing to then was saying about insulin resistance, and so many of the women I work with are mostly in midlife, and a lot of them have started to gain a little bit of weight around their tummy, and the extra weight coming around the tummy is a little bit of a sign that the body is started to respond less to insulin.
00:18:03:21 - 00:18:07:23
Dr Andrea
And so should I talk about the what insulin resistance is, is.
00:18:07:23 - 00:18:09:12
Filly
The first point.
00:18:09:16 - 00:18:34:16
Dr Andrea
So when we eat food you would know this. But let's tell the listeners, when we eat food, you take it into your body and it gets broken down into glucose. And glucose is our energy molecule. We take that into our cells to give us energy so the body breaks it down. We've got glucose in our bloodstream. So after we eat we would notice that our blood sugars, our blood glucose rises and the body sees that and responds by releasing insulin from the pancreas.
00:18:34:16 - 00:19:02:14
Dr Andrea
So the pancreas is a little organ that sits in our stomach just kind of slightly over towards the left side. And it releases insulin. So insulin goes in. Its job is to pull the blood glucose levels down in the bloodstream and put the glucose into the cells where they can be used for energy. So what happens with insulin resistance is the blood sugar levels rise, the body releases insulin from the pancreas, but nothing happens.
00:19:02:14 - 00:19:23:17
Dr Andrea
So the body becomes resistant to the effects of insulin. And the blood sugar levels still say hi. So the body has to pump out more insulin to actually get a response for that blood sugar to drop down lower. Again, it doesn't always drop down. But what happens with that is that higher insulin creates it's a fat storage hormone.
00:19:23:17 - 00:19:44:06
Dr Andrea
So it creates then a lot of fat storage and especially around the middle. So when my clients start working with me, one of the things I get them to check is their waist measurement. And if we see a waste measurement over 89cm or 35in for anyone in America it is, you know, kind of indicative sign of possible Simmental and resistance there.
00:19:44:07 - 00:20:07:08
Dr Andrea
Like it's not a blood test, but it's a pretty good like okay, yeah, maybe that's a bit of a sign. And so there's so many things we can do to get that insulin under control. But the problem with inflammation and insulin resistance is inflammation drives more insulin resistance. So it causes those cells to stop listening to the insulin signal properly.
00:20:07:09 - 00:20:32:13
Dr Andrea
And then we store more fat on the middle, which is called visceral fat. And it is not good fat because the problem with visceral fat is it's metabolically active, which means it's not just sitting there doing nothing, it means it's doing something so visceral fat because it's metabolically active, it creates its own inflammatory signals. So we start to see now a little bit of a vicious cycle starting.
00:20:32:14 - 00:20:33:08
Filly
To happen.
00:20:33:13 - 00:20:45:14
Dr Andrea
It's inflammation. It causes insulin resistance. Insulin resistance causes fat storage of the visceral fat. Visceral fat releases inflammation. And then the cycle starts to self-perpetuating feeds on.
00:20:45:14 - 00:20:47:23
Filly
Itself.
00:20:48:01 - 00:20:48:15
Dr Andrea
Which we don't.
00:20:48:15 - 00:20:49:03
Filly
Want.
00:20:49:04 - 00:21:10:05
Filly
Which we don't want with, with people who are showing up with more of that insulin resistance around the belly or just, I guess, like resistant weight loss in general. What are you noticing at the core, inflammatory, that are causing that.
00:21:10:07 - 00:21:11:14
Dr Andrea
Blood work? You mean dying?
00:21:11:16 - 00:21:14:03
Filly
Yeah. Like anything body body.
00:21:14:03 - 00:21:15:02
Filly
Systems.
00:21:15:04 - 00:21:21:17
Filly
Blood work, maybe even like life lifestyle stuff or psychological stuff. Yeah.
00:21:21:18 - 00:21:25:20
Filly
Yeah. Many things. Many.
00:21:25:22 - 00:21:45:22
Dr Andrea
Many things. And, you know, the signs of inflammation are many. Like many, many, many. But they all come back to one thing. And if we can reduce systemic inflammation, a lot of things can improve. So we don't have to spot treat. We can just go, okay, what's the root cause? If it's inflammation let's heal the inflammation in so many symptoms disappear.
00:21:45:22 - 00:22:04:21
Dr Andrea
But one of the symptoms as we've just talked about is that weight loss resistance. Like you know, you're doing all the things I'm cutting out calories. I'm exercising more. I've done that. Wait, wait. Watches I've done everything. Nothing works like that's kind of the piece. And then we get fatigue that doesn't disappear when you have a good night's sleep even.
00:22:04:21 - 00:22:24:00
Dr Andrea
But then you also might have sleep that's not doing so well. So you might be waking up at two, one, two, three in the morning, which is a real sign that you'll live is under load when you're waking up at that one, two, 3:00. That's when your liver is trying to detox the body. And if it's working harder, it will often overheat and then wake you up.
00:22:24:02 - 00:22:34:08
Dr Andrea
Oh. So. And then we had to get to sleep and had to say asleep when cortisol starts to rise, too, because cortisol comes in to.
00:22:34:10 - 00:22:35:06
Filly
Kind of.
00:22:35:12 - 00:22:54:05
Dr Andrea
When inflammations er cortisol rises. And another big piece of this too, when you have insulin resistance you can get these blood sugar wobbles. So the blood sugar can go up and can crash. And when blood sugar crashes the body releases cortisol to rescue that crashing blood sugar. So there's a you can see now there's like so many systems starting to talk to each other here.
00:22:54:07 - 00:23:14:03
Dr Andrea
But we also see I'm just trying to think through my case history. I always when a client comes to me, I always ask a full, proper case history, as I know you were to Filly and I go through all the different body systems asking questions, and straight away you can start to see the patterns and see where the root cause is coming from, because we've done it for so long, we know.
00:23:14:03 - 00:23:33:15
Dr Andrea
But I always ask questions about gut health and about energy and about endocrine health. And I want to look at, you know, how their periods are and if they're still cycling or how perimenopause is or how menopause is or, there's questions I asked that makes me go, something's going on with your thyroid. You know, we can see a lot of that stuff.
00:23:33:15 - 00:23:41:02
Dr Andrea
But from a client's perspective, they'll see, you know, the sugar cravings, the super tired.
00:23:41:04 - 00:23:41:18
Filly
00:23:41:21 - 00:24:05:20
Dr Andrea
Skin health might not be good. Like, you'll start the body when it's trying to detoxify. It might give you rashes and pimples and hives. That's another kind of piece that comes into it. Said that's not working well. Definitely see the afternoon 3:00 crash the sleep. That's not good. I can't think of anything else off the top of my head right now, but it's all.
00:24:05:20 - 00:24:07:11
Filly
The stuff.
00:24:07:13 - 00:24:13:05
Dr Andrea
Brain fog. There you go. I think I've got a bit of brain fog to Ellie this morning.
00:24:13:07 - 00:24:15:21
Filly
That's just like getting up too early.
00:24:15:23 - 00:24:37:07
Dr Andrea
Yeah, that's trying to fit the gym in before I go to the clinic today. That's what that was. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, blood work too. So I always love looking up bloods on my clients. And if people come to me and say, look, if you've had a general blood test lately, let me have a look. Like, we can always tell a lot from just a good old general annual check-up kind of blood test.
00:24:37:08 - 00:24:55:16
Dr Andrea
We don't need anything fancy to be able to see, but I love looking at albumin globulin ratio. It tells me if the body is inflamed. I love looking at CRP and SR, which are kind of inflammation markers. But then I really love vitamin D, thorough panel. If we can get a full, thorough panel, I'm a very happy girl rather than just sage.
00:24:55:18 - 00:25:18:13
Dr Andrea
And if we can look at B12 and homocysteine, I'd love looking at glucose fasting insulin. There are some of the liver enzymes, iron panel, like some of those good basics that we can see so many things from even, you know, we can look at just the red and white blood cells and see what they're doing. We don't have to go into fancy, expensive testing to be able to tell a lot.
00:25:18:14 - 00:25:43:12
Filly
Yeah, yeah. You mentioned, food before. So and you said there's usually like baseline inflammatory foods, but then each individual will be, will have their personal makeup. I guess that would be interacting with different foods. Can you talk about like what's the baseline. But then also what it might look like for different people and for the different people?
00:25:43:12 - 00:26:00:02
Filly
Is it is it more to use it? Is it more using food as medicine to heal? And then they're coming back on the foods? Are you finding that there are some people with metabolic types, I guess, or something within their physiology where it's like this is clear that this way of eating is going to support you long term?
00:26:00:04 - 00:26:21:21
Dr Andrea
Yeah. Both. Fairly both. Yeah. Everyone's different. Yeah. So when I start with my clients I get them off the base. The basic kind of pro-inflammatory foods, which is gluten caused a process. And alcohol, we just let the body and ultra processed foods. Don't forget that one. I just let the body have a rest from all of those. And we usually do that for.
00:26:21:23 - 00:26:51:08
Dr Andrea
Oh, it depends how we work together. But at least a minimum of three weeks, usually a bit longer and people start feeling really good. It's not always giving all the answers. And I like I like to do an elimination and a reintroduction so people can tell how a food feels on their body, and they can start to learn what an inflammatory response feels like for them, symptom wise and inflammation wise, because then they can make, you know, informed, empowered decisions around eating different foods in the future.
00:26:51:08 - 00:27:25:23
Dr Andrea
So a lot of those foods don't have to be never foods. You might find somebody become coeliac. And if that's an autoimmune condition and if you are coeliac 100%, never, ever, ever should you have gluten. Like that's a completely different story. But most people are able to tolerate a little bit of everything. So I teach my clients to learn how to listen to their bodies in a way that they can get to an endpoint of knowing if a food, we have a little system, I call it my mother never sometimes and special occasions food or always foods so they can find out what are their always foods.
00:27:25:23 - 00:27:47:04
Dr Andrea
They can find out what are their like once a week or twice a week. Foods if they cause them a little bit of inflammation. Because if our inflammation is low or most of the time our body is clever, like it can tolerate a little bit of south that might be pro-inflammatory, but we don't want to have that every day, because then we start living up in this like layer of inflammation and symptom land again.
00:27:47:04 - 00:27:59:19
Dr Andrea
But for me, like I like I said to you before, I can have a little bit of sugar and not a problem. I can have a little bit of dairy here and they're not a problem. But if I have gluten, like I just, it makes me sad when I wake up in the morning. That's the symptom I get.
00:27:59:19 - 00:28:18:05
Dr Andrea
And I don't like feeling like that. So I'm like, no, gluten is my never food. And even all the years I've been doing a lot of always supporting my health and gut healing, but I don't, I don't know, I don't know if that will ever come back for me, but and it's the same for everybody. The more, you know, we can heal our gut.
00:28:18:07 - 00:28:34:23
Dr Andrea
Often you can tolerate more and more foods. And then I know you work so much on that emotional level, which is not my department at all. And I know working in that space when we talking to you before can help with a lot of that. You know, that healing and allowing the gut to tolerate more foods as well.
00:28:35:01 - 00:28:40:05
Dr Andrea
Yeah. But there's I've lost my train of thought now.
00:28:40:07 - 00:28:44:08
Filly
So there's the the main pro inflammatory foods.
00:28:44:09 - 00:28:45:20
Dr Andrea
Are the main pro-inflammatory foods.
00:28:45:20 - 00:28:48:01
Filly
Yes a time yeah.
00:28:48:07 - 00:29:12:21
Dr Andrea
And then and then my clients kind of work out what other foods may or may not be causing them inflammation. And so there's a key piece in midlife women where when our oestrogen starts to wobble, we we can become very intolerant of some histamine foods like high histamine foods. So I see that really commonly popping up. And so that might be a piece where ladies have to just reduce that histamine load a little bit.
00:29:12:22 - 00:29:35:12
Dr Andrea
You don't have to cut it out completely, but just reduce it for a little while. And usually when you get into the menopause years, that can come back in and be okay again. But that was definitely a piece I had. Around about 45. I started getting terrible migraines, which I'd never had before, and I figured out after a few that came on a Monday, I thought, well, how am I getting migraines on a Monday?
00:29:35:12 - 00:29:41:17
Dr Andrea
And I realised I was always having some chocolate on a Saturday.
00:29:41:19 - 00:29:58:07
Dr Andrea
And so histamine response is often two days later. And it was really interesting. So for me, that's been something I've had to work with. And I can have a little bit of chocolate, but I if I have too much of that, just different histamine foods layered on top at the moment, I'll start to get a bit of a headache and I go, that's enough.
00:29:58:07 - 00:30:14:21
Dr Andrea
But that's that's where I really would love everyone to have that understanding of their body, that they know how food feels. Listen to it. It's never it never becomes like, you can't have that. It becomes like, I don't want to have that because I don't want to feel like that. I want to feel like this.
00:30:14:22 - 00:30:35:21
Filly
Yes. And I think, like what I heard in that as well was that it can be seasonal as well. So it might be for a period of time. So I quickly share my experience with food because I was a sugar or holic, 100% like closet sugar eater, especially when I became a nutritionist. I'm like, I'm still addicted to sugar.
00:30:35:22 - 00:31:19:02
Filly
I can't let anyone see me. So I had like some emotional eating patterns going on. And then when I started getting serious about healing, it's like, cut it all out. Did all the diets paleo, keto, auto immune, histamine, any Candida. And I kind of developed a bit of author Xia during that time as well. So which also caused fear of food and started demonising food as well because I didn't have someone in my corner kind of coaching me that it's like if you go down that route that actually does have like an emotional, neurological connection to the way that your body is going to respond to food, as well as all the physical things that
00:31:19:02 - 00:31:48:03
Filly
are happening. Yeah. But I definitely felt like like I needed, I needed to go low sugar and low carb for a season because I had I was rooted with canned data, and it's very hard to reduce that and get that back down if you're still eating a lot of sugar, even like natural healthy sugars, which I was eating in excess when I switched over to like, well, I'm eating the healthy things.
00:31:48:05 - 00:32:16:11
Filly
And then I had histamine intolerance for a period of time as well, which when I cut those out, symptoms reduced dramatically till they came back. And then the food didn't do anything like the food changes because I'd created such a neurological pathway in my system that my body was still responding to those foods, like, because physiologically, my immune cells were still producing histamine.
00:32:16:13 - 00:32:41:22
Filly
And dairy was a big one for me. I always like I took gluten out as well, but it wasn't such an issue. But dairy, like even the smallest traces of dairy would cause symptoms and sometimes it would be like cystic acne, really bad back pain, really congested, and Mukasey, and so along my healing journey, like, I can eat all the foods again.
00:32:41:22 - 00:33:11:08
Filly
But I know that if I was to eat like full on wheat gluten every day and like bad, I shouldn't say bad. I don't want to say bad and healthy versions of dairy. I probably wouldn't feel good. But I've been able to understand. It's like, well, I'm okay with gluten and I'm okay with spelt every day because I'm buying it organic and it's whole food and it's lovely and like I'm making things from scratch.
00:33:11:08 - 00:33:18:21
Filly
But if I was to eat white bread from the supermarket every day, pretty sure I wouldn't feel great after a few weeks.
00:33:18:23 - 00:33:37:23
Dr Andrea
Yeah, I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't feel great after a few weeks on that. It's like a processed and it's not real food like you're eating when you're having your souder or whatever you're having. It's real food, and it's been made with love and cooked slowly and brown properly, like all that real food is how it should be.
00:33:37:23 - 00:34:00:20
Dr Andrea
Not made in a factory. You know, one of my patients actually, in Melbourne, he works at one of those bread help. I shouldn't say the brand. He works at one of those bread companies where he said from learning how the production of bread you buy at the supermarket is made. It put him off ever eating bread ever again.
00:34:00:20 - 00:34:02:08
Filly
That's interesting. Yeah, yeah.
00:34:02:09 - 00:34:16:07
Dr Andrea
And I don't know what he didn't tell me. I don't remember if he did tell me, but we didn't go into the nuts and bolts of it. But the fact that he said that and he worked and like, yeah, that backs up my theory about it not being real food. It's just fake food. It's not food. It's just fake stuff.
00:34:16:08 - 00:34:17:23
Dr Andrea
Yeah. Fake crap. Yeah.
00:34:18:01 - 00:34:29:22
Filly
And I love the the body wisdom rather than counting calories or following something really strict. What does that actually look like in a day?
00:34:30:00 - 00:34:31:12
Dr Andrea
For me or for my.
00:34:31:14 - 00:34:47:05
Filly
Yeah. For clients. Like if someone's kind of like entering the journey and they're like, I really love to understand how my body is responding to foods and how I can create a like a nutritional plan, essentially, that works for my body in this season.
00:34:47:07 - 00:35:15:11
Dr Andrea
Yeah, well, there's some guidelines. Of course. There's some guidelines, of course, that I encourage my clients to work with. Obviously, the midlife women is who I really help, and a lot of them are under eating protein. So we need to really increase protein without having to weigh it. So I like my clients to get a bit of an eyeballs idea of what 20g of protein looks like, so they can try and then hit their protein goals, which is 1.2g of protein per kilogram of ideal body weight.
00:35:15:11 - 00:35:49:03
Dr Andrea
So for, you know, a 70 kilogram ideal body weight person, you would probably be a woman you'd be wanting minimum of 80 to 85g of protein every day, spaced out through the day, not just back loaded at dinner. And so to have a protein rich breakfast to start the day is just key. And usually when women do that, they will find that the cravings disappear and they will find they have more energy and they don't get hungry and start looking for sugar and carbs as quick fixes.
00:35:49:08 - 00:36:13:14
Dr Andrea
But a lot of women who don't eat or fast too long or miss meals, it starts to cause, yeah, these big sugar wobbles and highs and lows. And then that's when the cravings come back. So if they start to really listen to their body and they only get hungry just before the next meal, which is three times a day, usually don't need to snack if you're having enough protein each meal.
00:36:13:14 - 00:36:33:10
Dr Andrea
And then you don't get the cravings and you don't get the hunger in between, that's a pretty healthy little body. And if your stools are working well every day, like you start to, I love to educate my clients about what a healthy body looks like and what Imperial's look really good, and there's no pain and there's no breast and illness and no PMS.
00:36:33:11 - 00:36:59:22
Dr Andrea
Like that's a healthy body. We get all these beautiful windows of opportunity. But yeah, for women, I just love them to eat real food and they learn what it looks like that's right for them. Whether it includes a little bit of dairy or a little bit of gluten, but always looking 100% avoiding ultra processed foods, most of the time they control what you can control at home, but if you're out and about eating at a friend's house, eating a restaurant, don't worry about it because our body can handle a little bit of that.
00:36:59:22 - 00:37:10:10
Dr Andrea
It's when we have it all the time and it's loaded up that it it starts to, you know, kick back at you and not handle it. Well.
00:37:10:12 - 00:37:35:14
Filly
Do you find I mean, this is a this is kind of like a personal question because I don't actually eat heat. Like I wouldn't hit the 1.2g of protein per body weight. But I know in the past, especially when I was not well, I did because I felt like that was necessary and it like it nourished and helped me my healing journey.
00:37:35:15 - 00:37:59:18
Filly
But now I don't know. My body feels like better without protein, not without protein. I still like protein, but with less protein specifically in the morning. Like I will feel my best with like a small little bowl of granola with some dairy free milk. Or I don't know if you know the brand primal alternative, but they have beautiful.
00:37:59:22 - 00:38:16:22
Filly
It's like a grain, grain free bakery goods, basically. And so it's like punched with so many seeds and nuts and nutrition. But the slice is pretty small, and I'll just have one piece of that with some natural peanut butter. And I'm like, good for like 3 or 4 hours.
00:38:17:00 - 00:38:19:13
Dr Andrea
You're done. You're having protein protein protein there. You're having.
00:38:19:13 - 00:38:23:06
Filly
A protein. True true true true.
00:38:23:08 - 00:38:30:15
Dr Andrea
Nut butter bread may be seeds. It's all protein protein, protein. You're probably getting at least like good 15 to 20g of protein in that morning snack.
00:38:30:16 - 00:38:33:09
Filly
Okay. There you go. Yeah.
00:38:33:11 - 00:38:38:11
Dr Andrea
You don't have to have meat to have protein. Like, you can get protein from so many other beautiful plant based sources.
00:38:38:12 - 00:38:50:23
Filly
Yeah. Yeah. That's probably like useful for listeners to hear too, because most people probably when they hear protein is like, well, I'm not having eggs and I'm not having steak or I'm not having leftovers from dinner. Yeah.
00:38:51:01 - 00:39:02:05
Dr Andrea
But then the other question for you, I don't actually know how old you are. 42. Yeah. So you probably will find in the next few years you might need to have a bit more protein again. Yeah.
00:39:02:07 - 00:39:02:10
Filly
Yeah.
00:39:02:10 - 00:39:03:19
Dr Andrea
It'll come, it'll come.
00:39:03:19 - 00:39:18:11
Filly
Back because I'd say in the last maybe 3 to 5 years feel better with that. Like with less than what I was having. But I'm also not as exercising high intensity like I used to. Yeah, yeah.
00:39:18:12 - 00:39:28:07
Dr Andrea
No, there needs for women below. Like, you know, perimenopause years is only 1g/kg of ideal body weight. And you'll be getting that in very easy with a breakfast like that and just having it.
00:39:28:07 - 00:39:28:10
Filly
Yeah.
00:39:28:11 - 00:39:29:08
Dr Andrea
True. You know.
00:39:29:12 - 00:39:34:04
Filly
Like I usually have meat or eggs for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:34:05 - 00:39:51:18
Dr Andrea
Okay. So you're going to be having enough protein for your age. But you'll find if you get. Yeah. But if you get to, you know, 45 and you start getting afternoon tiredness or sugar cravings, you'll be like, oh, Andrea told me to eat more protein about five years ago. Probably should do that now. Yeah.
00:39:51:20 - 00:40:11:09
Filly
So funny. Now I want to finish off just because I don't know if you've been interviewed on other podcasts, and it's about weight loss and GLP ones often come up in in because you know, everyone's talking about them. So.
00:40:11:11 - 00:40:13:01
Filly
Question around.
00:40:13:03 - 00:40:21:19
Chris
Can we just take a time out for just a one hot second just to reintroduce myself into the podcast? What the biscuit is a GLP. What what what.
00:40:21:20 - 00:40:30:04
Filly
Oh, would you like to answer that? Andrea, you don't know what a GOP one is. The weight loss medication.
00:40:30:05 - 00:40:30:13
Chris
I just.
00:40:30:19 - 00:40:35:20
Dr Andrea
Yeah, weight loss medication. Glue. Is it glucagon. Glucagon like peptide one.
00:40:35:21 - 00:40:37:06
Chris
I think it's MP. Is that what.
00:40:37:06 - 00:40:39:05
Filly
That is. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
00:40:39:06 - 00:40:40:20
Dr Andrea
Is would go.
00:40:40:20 - 00:40:42:08
Filly
Over one of them. Yeah.
00:40:42:10 - 00:40:43:06
Chris
Yeah I'm so.
00:40:43:06 - 00:40:44:04
Dr Andrea
Glad they're DLP.
00:40:44:05 - 00:40:46:13
Chris
Ones but yeah let's talk about them.
00:40:46:19 - 00:41:13:12
Filly
Let's talk about that. So I'm I'm curious your thoughts around them. I mean obviously there's no one size one pill fits all sizes. I'm also curious to hear your thoughts around inflammation because, I'm not sure if there's research studies, but I know clinically people are seeing that when they are using the medication. It's actually helping with inflammatory type symptoms as well.
00:41:13:18 - 00:41:34:16
Filly
So I'm sure you're all over it being in the weight loss industry. What are your thoughts around what's what's happening at a deeper level? And also if someone's considering using it, is there anything that they could do to support their body beforehand or during or after?
00:41:34:18 - 00:41:55:03
Dr Andrea
Yeah, 100%. So many things I can say about that filly. So, you know, there's a place, there's a place for everything for every medication. And my values are it's the last thing that I would do, but I definitely take medication when it's the last thing I need to, you know, if I've got a really bad tonsillitis infection, I'll take antibiotics if nothing else is working.
00:41:55:03 - 00:42:11:13
Dr Andrea
So there's a place for it, especially for people with type two diabetes and obesity. Like it's going to really reduce their risk factor if they can lose the weight. Like there's a lot of people that I know, their health markers are improved a lot when they've been able to lose that weight, that they haven't been able to lose for a long time.
00:42:11:18 - 00:42:39:06
Dr Andrea
But I just don't think it should be the first port of call for weight loss. If people don't have a lot of more complex diabetes type obesity problems. Yet there's many things we can do because there is definite side effects. They're not even side effects. Their effects that happen like they just happen when people take their medication. It may not see it straight away, but whenever you lose weight and especially I mean any kind of weight loss, you're going to also lose some muscle.
00:42:39:06 - 00:43:02:23
Dr Andrea
But with this, because it's such fast weight loss for many people that they lose muscle in a way that isn't helpful. And then that changes the body's own metabolism, because muscle is beautifully metabolically active. And when we have more muscle, we will burn more fat just at rest, burn more energy at rest. And so I've seen with clients a lot of gut issues that have popped up.
00:43:03:01 - 00:43:21:03
Dr Andrea
And the question pops up then will do we have to stay on them for the rest of our lives? Or can we come off them? Because if we come off them, does everything come back? And it does. Like if you don't do the underlying heal the root cause as well. So I don't see DLP ones as a standalone magic fix.
00:43:21:04 - 00:43:42:13
Dr Andrea
If people are on them. It can be a tool as part of your toolkit, but everything else has to be dealt with. All this stuff you and I have just been talking about today, Filly, the neurological stuff that you guys do, the inflammation stuff and the healing of the root cause, stuff that I do like, all of that has to be done alongside if you decide to take a deal, one as well.
00:43:42:18 - 00:44:05:22
Dr Andrea
But I remember the very first client I had when GLP one, who was on a GLP one when it was first coming in. And the system I have in my program is we have a really good little system worked out to be able to tell if a food causes an inflammatory response in your body. And my sister wasn't working with this client, I just was like pulling my hair out.
00:44:05:22 - 00:44:24:01
Dr Andrea
Why? Why is this not working? And eventually, like, I'd taken a full history. I didn't know she was on it. And eventually she said, oh, that's the medication, the weight loss medication. I'm like, hang on, what? I told you about that? Pretty sure he didn't. And I keep very good notes. And I looked back at my notes and he didn't tell me about that.
00:44:24:01 - 00:44:44:20
Dr Andrea
And anyway, I was like, okay, right, you're on a weight loss medication. I can see your body behaving differently to every other person that I'm taking through my system. And I've seen that a couple of times now. So now when I have people who, on a GLP want to have to do things differently because the body is responding differently, yeah, I don't know.
00:44:44:20 - 00:44:47:17
Dr Andrea
What do you see differently Filly with clients?
00:44:47:18 - 00:45:09:22
Filly
I guess we don't. I mean, back in the day when Chris had a gym, we worked with a lot of people who wanted to lose weight. But I feel like clients that we work with, it's not there. It's not their main reason for working with us. And if they do have a goal or it's like, oh, I would love to shift some weight, it often happens after healing all the other things.
00:45:09:23 - 00:45:12:19
Dr Andrea
Always does. It always does.
00:45:12:21 - 00:45:42:14
Filly
It's always like something underlying. And then clients who we mean, okay, we got we do have some or have had some clients who after doing a lot of healing and this is both physically and metaphysically and then deciding to go on the medication, it's working really well for her. Like one, she's losing the weight, but because she also did all the the deeper than the other way work, she's not having any side effects at all.
00:45:42:16 - 00:46:11:08
Filly
The body's responding to it. And yeah, things are working for her. And then there was another lady who she was losing some weight. She lost a bunch of weight on weight loss medications, and then it stalled like it just stopped until she did some deeper metaphysical healing of deeper beliefs and identity work and processing trauma. And then her body is like, oh, it's safe to continue.
00:46:11:09 - 00:46:13:03
Filly
Like releasing this fat now.
00:46:13:05 - 00:46:17:13
Dr Andrea
Safe to continue to lose weight. The body will not lose weight if it doesn't feel safe to lose weight.
00:46:17:13 - 00:46:48:06
Filly
Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I don't really feel like we've got like 100 people on medication that I can start seeing patterns, but they're just some things that I have seen. And I think everybody is different. So everyone is going to have different things happening underneath the surface, and they're going to interact with different things in different ways, just in the same way that, you know, if we did some functional lab testing, it's like you really need to support your adrenal.
00:46:48:06 - 00:46:56:18
Filly
Someone might respond really beautifully to the supplements, whereas someone else might either like, react to them or not respond to them at all.
00:46:56:20 - 00:46:57:08
Dr Andrea
That's right.
00:46:57:08 - 00:47:04:23
Filly
And then as everyone's asking the deeper questions like, oh, what's going on here? Like where is the physiology blocking this?
00:47:05:01 - 00:47:41:04
Dr Andrea
Yeah, totally. But definitely with the GOP ones, if people are taking taking them, the number one thing they need to be doing is, well, doing stuff like we've been talking about the underlying root cause work, but muscle has to be maintained, so have to be doing some strength training and eating enough protein beside it to to make sure that the whole body composition doesn't change, that you get more, you know, less less muscle and more kind of fat as a, as a proportion rather than, you know, we want to build that muscle and keep that muscle rather than losing it with the TLP ones.
00:47:41:05 - 00:47:42:10
Chris
Yeah. Makes sense.
00:47:42:10 - 00:48:10:06
Filly
So good. Thanks so much. This has been an awesome conversation. So many juicy gems. And like some practical practical takeaways as well. Now I know that you have got a PDF which is an inflammation guide. And then can you speak into that. And also you've got your three week inflammation detox died. Is that what it's called. Yeah yeah yeah.
00:48:10:08 - 00:48:13:18
Dr Andrea
I call it a detox diet. Yeah. Because but I hate the word diet.
00:48:13:20 - 00:48:15:05
Filly
I know I'm the same.
00:48:15:05 - 00:48:18:18
Filly
I'm like, this is your healing your healing guide.
00:48:18:20 - 00:48:19:17
Filly
Yeah. Healing.
00:48:19:20 - 00:48:37:18
Dr Andrea
Everybody wants that. So I always say I so people what they want and then I give them what they need. I sell them a diet or weight loss. And then I give them health. Like there's always a way it goes. But yeah, the Inflammation Fixed guide is a free little PDF that you can get from my website. I'm sure you'll pop the the link in the show notes.
00:48:37:22 - 00:48:58:15
Dr Andrea
And then I just got some great tips in there. A lot of the stuff we've talked about today, but maybe a little deeper as well. And then my three week inflammation detox diet is a fabulous starting point, and I have a special $111. If you jump on my website, you'll see that they're last for a little short time.
00:48:58:19 - 00:49:17:11
Dr Andrea
And yeah, we go right into some of the basics that we're talking about today. And people will lose 2 or 3 kilos, or sometimes more on that little three week program just because they're really letting their body heal from inflammation. Have usually the first few days there's a bit of detox symptoms. We get a lot of headaches and stuff.
00:49:17:11 - 00:49:29:23
Dr Andrea
They feel a bit rotten for a couple of days for some people, but then they start to come out the other end and feel amazing. Yeah, so it's a really lovely little program. I enjoy working with the ladies in that we have a weekly coaching call, so we get to connect in real life as well.
00:49:30:00 - 00:49:31:02
Filly
So good.
00:49:31:03 - 00:49:32:02
Filly
Awesome.
00:49:32:06 - 00:49:38:01
Filly
Thank you. We'll make sure all of that those links and info are in the show notes.
00:49:38:03 - 00:49:38:15
Chris
Lovely.
00:49:38:21 - 00:49:39:16
Dr Andrea
Thanks for having me.
00:49:39:17 - 00:49:49:23
Chris
Stick around. We'll say goodbye formally, but thanks everybody for listening.
00:49:50:01 - 00:50:00:00
Filly
Thank you so much for listening. We so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love by sharing this episode.
00:50:00:05 - 00:50:18:17
Chris
You can also rate your own state of burnout and the root cause contributors by taking our Ending Body Burnout assessment on our website. And if you're interested in learning about our group or one on one ending body burnout programs, shoot us a DM via Instagram or Facebook. Have the best day ever.
