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Chris
Hello and welcome to the ending body Burnout show. We are your host, Chris and Filly, co-founders of a multi winning functional medicine practice serving busy people with energy, mood and gut issues.
00:00:17:00 - 00:00:24:21
Filly
Well, business, addictive doing, people pleasing and perfectionism might be the norm. It's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
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Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic root root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplements hoping something might stick.
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Filly
So get ready to heal your body, get your spark back deeply, connect with yourself, and step into the life of your dreams.
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Chris
Let's dive in.
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Filly
Hello! Welcome to the ending body burnout show. Today we have a really fun chat with the lovely Emma Lovell. We are talking all about how travel. Who doesn't love travel and holidays and experiencing new parts of the world? How travel can help you help prevent, or heal from body burnout and become part of your self-care toolkit. So yeah, we had a really lovely conversation with Emma, especially past our four week road trip that we spoke a little bit about in a podcast a few weeks ago.
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Filly
So I think you really gonna enjoy this conversation, and then there will be lots of little gold nuggets that you can apply into your daily life, even if you don't have travel on the horizon just yet. So a little bit about Emma Lovell. She is the leisure coach and founder of Rest and Receive. She is an author, speaker and business coach, and Emma is redefining success by helping professionals blend business, travel and self-care into a lifestyle they love now, not one day or some day in the future.
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Filly
With 16 years in business and travel to 77 countries, Emma has built a six figure location, flexible business, hosted retreats around the world and written the blueprint for this life in her book, the Art of pleasure. She's here to show you how freedom, flexibility and fulfilment can be part of your everyday, not just your escape. Let's dive into today's conversation.
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Chris
Welcome, everybody, to the ending body burnout. So in this episode, we have the lovely Emma Lovell. Thank you very much for joining us today, Emma.
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Emma
Thank you so much. And you got the, the pun as well. The lovely.
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Chris
That's that's right.
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Filly
Oh, did you do that on purpose?
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Chris
Yes.
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Emma
Yes.
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Chris
Unintentional. That was awesome. Yeah. The lovely.
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Filly
Is that your maiden name or your married name?
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Emma
I have to think about that. My. It's my maiden name. Yeah. I tried on my foot. Lovely. With the alias tattooed on my foot. So it's is.
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Chris
Really.
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Emma
A partner. I was like, yeah, it was my original logo. So I got the tattoo, turned it into a logo, and, Yeah, I told my partner now husband, that it was like, I won't be changing my name.
00:03:30:03 - 00:03:46:17
Filly
I wouldn't either, it's perfect. I mean, it's perfect for what we're going to be talking about today. So the art of of illegal blending work and travel and self-care and all the things which just help us to feel lovely.
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Emma
Yeah. So lately.
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Filly
So I'm curious, just diving into your own personal journey. We love when we have guests. Come on to talk about any past experiences you've had with body burnout or burnout in general. And also how that has contributed and led into melded into what you now do in order to help other people?
00:04:12:08 - 00:04:30:01
Emma
Yeah. And look, I had a bit of I had some I would say more like was a break as opposed to, a burnout. So I decided to first break my body, and didn't really get the full message to slow down from that, slowed down for the time, and then decided, I'll give it a break. My mind.
00:04:30:03 - 00:04:51:12
Emma
It was, you know, really kind of get that message locked in. So, my business started because I broke my back. So I was snowboarding and when I was in university games competing, and I went off a jump, told myself to man up. Pushed. Pushed too hard. You know, it's probably already fatigued and exhausted and, you know, padding awake and all the other things.
00:04:51:14 - 00:05:10:20
Emma
And so I was not equipped to do the jump that I did and, didn't land it, landed, you know, and, brought to it a break. So forced into rest. I had eight weeks in, sorry, eight days in hospital, ten weeks in a back brace. Which was a great physical reminder to like that I was broken.
00:05:10:22 - 00:05:31:16
Emma
And I had to slow down. And I actually really enjoyed that time. And having some time. I actually was able to go, well, I've got this dream of starting a business, and we're going to do that. And so I just, registered the name and said, I'm running a business and started I was studying business, majoring in marketing and PR, so I had some skills and things.
00:05:31:16 - 00:05:58:13
Emma
But, you know, I just yeah, got it because I actually had some time and space to think about what I wanted. So then I recovered, forgot all of that. So running a business took on director of another company, you know, finished up my last semester of uni, so I'm running two businesses start at the gate. As well as doing that, freelancing promotions, work and, and then kind of backtracking, actually, or, making up for the fact that I hadn't had had had that break.
00:05:58:13 - 00:06:19:00
Emma
So it had that physical and, time break where I couldn't work as much. So I was, I was making up for that, travelling, working, travelling, working, working so that I could have money to travel. And I was driving, trigger warning, but I was driving to a job one day, and I thought, I'm going to crash my car.
00:06:19:02 - 00:06:41:02
Emma
And it wasn't like, oops, not paying attention. It was like, if I do not stop this car, I'm going to drive it cool. Like, So I managed to go into a side street, went into a full blown panic tech. Luckily had only just recently left my great aunt's house, so I was able to. I called my mum, said, you know, Nicole, I'm not going anywhere.
00:06:41:02 - 00:07:03:07
Emma
I can't go anywhere. Got myself back to the house and then again, didn't work for like, ten weeks. But I can tell you right now, that was a lot harder than people understood. The broken back and the back brace. People didn't understand that what we would now call a burnout level, and to be, in the past.
00:07:03:07 - 00:07:35:20
Emma
But, you know, and also even that, reaction of the company that when my unfortunately my mum, I think, said on the phone that I had a panic attack and even having to deal with that situation of the way that they then passed on information and treated me. It was yeah, really interesting. And that the response to that and then, you know, obviously the, physical it took so much for me, drained so much of me physically where again, I could understand a physical break but understand my back that it was because I was physically tired.
00:07:35:21 - 00:07:58:05
Emma
Of course, it's going to take physical time to repair, but emotionally, mentally, spiritually being broken, the energy it took. So very fortunate to have those. I was like 21 and 22 respectively. So to have those lessons so young, as much as it was challenging, I now know how low it can go and how bad a break can be.
00:07:58:07 - 00:08:06:20
Emma
And that my message has become, you do not need to physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually break in order to take a break. Like.
00:08:06:22 - 00:08:24:03
Filly
Yeah, wow. Did you have, like, looking back in hindsight or even in the moment, did you know that mentally, emotionally, you weren't doing so well or did it come as a shock that it's just like, oh my gosh, I just had this thought that I had like literally when I driving to a wall.
00:08:24:05 - 00:08:24:10
Chris
I'd.
00:08:24:10 - 00:08:47:10
Emma
Had depression and anxiety again. You know, we have to say, but fortunate to have had it at a young age, so had did have some tools and resources. So, when I was 17 last year of high school, I had had gone into a depressive state, and so I knew that I had a propensity for it. I knew it was already, something that I would, you know, I have to be aware of forever.
00:08:47:12 - 00:09:13:19
Emma
But, you know, 1 in 5 people will experience it. So, I, there was a history of it in my family as well. So, fortunate to know what it was, to have it recognised, to have it treated so. So a psychiatrist, psychologist, counsellor, doctor, school, everyone. I was very fortunate to have a really great team around me, but it takes time to learn the signs and I definitely recognise that that's where it was going.
00:09:13:19 - 00:09:32:03
Emma
Oh, it felt different. It did feel different. I, I remember people saying like, I think it's good to now know I have people who I say, if you see me sort of on that trajectory, sort of say, hey, you know, how are we doing? You know? But I'm also that thing of like, you tell me, I need to stop and I'll double down.
00:09:32:06 - 00:09:54:15
Emma
So tell me, tell me, know and I'll find a way to do it. So the sort of, you know, I yeah, I just, I probably didn't recognise it. We didn't know that hadn't been out then, and I really would have thought so young. Anyway. Yeah. I just it's working hard. Yeah. Making money. Yeah. It was, I was tired, I was working, but I had to keep going.
00:09:54:15 - 00:10:13:08
Emma
But I can now look back and say even in my body, intensive, you know, has played drinking too much, but it wasn't sleeping well, like, you know, I've got puffy face, inflamed, let's head for weight and things like that. So it wasn't taking care of myself. It was just work, work, work, work, work in order to get the money to then be able to travel.
00:10:13:10 - 00:10:36:16
Emma
Yes. Why you. Yeah. Came about because that way, it's, you know, that's what we do. We work, work, work. Take a break or holiday collapsed. Then you start to dread coming back or to do it again. Work, work, holiday or break? Collapse. Yeah. Feel that rejuvenating or restoring that night. You know, just, you know, it is two extremes.
00:10:36:16 - 00:10:57:11
Emma
So the thing that the thing for me was the self-care, and without it all, you can have the work, you can have the success. It's awesome. You'd have the travel and the gallivanting, and you can even go too far with that. I've travelled for months and months at a time, but that can be too much too, if you're not taking care of yourself, then it's all going to fall over at some point.
00:10:57:13 - 00:11:00:18
Emma
00:11:00:20 - 00:11:15:17
Filly
What do you think was the root cause underneath? So you mentioned like quack, quack quack quack quack. Then I broke what was happening underneath the surface that caused those patterns to be there in the first place. Do you think.
00:11:15:19 - 00:11:44:06
Emma
I do have, like, a pattern of feast or famine plays out in, you know, not like literally in food or literally work. So it's this yeah, all or nothing approach. So it's one of the things that I've had to really work on is having that. And I'm really resistant to routine and structure. So it's finding so self-care now for me, it's not about like if I make a retainer structure, you end up creating another issue.
00:11:44:06 - 00:12:05:21
Emma
It's another thing to do. Yeah, I think it's having things to do. And I'm a very good action taker. And if we do, so give me something to do or many things to do, I'm going to do them. So the thing was learning to say no, learning to have space and then learning also that in terms of that self-care, I treat it like a buffet.
00:12:05:23 - 00:12:25:04
Emma
I don't use all of it, and I don't have to do it all in one go. It's like there's a buffet and I can choose what I need from that buffet. Yeah, at that time. And it's how I work with clients or tell people I'm like, for any of the other things, I'm like, let's set goals, let's have actions, let's have steps.
00:12:25:04 - 00:12:45:23
Emma
But when it comes to self-care, I'm like, just make a list of things that you work for you that you enjoy. And then pull on that, pull on that toolkit, pull in that list, choose from that buffet. Because otherwise, you know, I find myself going to bed is the hardest thing for me. I am tired this week because, yeah, for lots on my mind.
00:12:45:23 - 00:13:02:20
Emma
So there's times where things are going to happen. You can't avoid it. You know? There's lots on your mind. It's hard at the moment. It's a bit hard. It is laid multiple factors, but what? I can't do it then go, so I need a bedtime routine so that I'm like, I always create this thing to procrastinate as well.
00:13:02:22 - 00:13:18:20
Emma
I've got to do my journal and I've got to pull my affirmation card. Then I'm going to brush my teeth, and then I listen to a meditation. If I don't listen to the meditation and do the journal and do my teeth and do that, then I can't sleep, which is not true. Yeah, but so you just create another road for your back.
00:13:18:20 - 00:13:39:02
Emma
This is me anyway. But I'm like, it's it's all of it's the pressure and the feeling, like the half truths and the need to choose as opposed to here's some resources that could support me. And what is the primary goal is sleep. Because sleep is the pillar for all of self-care. Without the sleep, nothing works.
00:13:39:04 - 00:13:39:20
Filly
Yeah.
00:13:39:22 - 00:14:05:10
Chris
Where do you where do you think these patterns started for you? With the like, the feast or famine, the all or nothing. Even when you said you would resist the the you need to slow down or you should stop. You should stop or you can't do this. You know, when when some people might say that to you and you have this resistance, to.
00:14:05:10 - 00:14:15:04
Chris
Oh, yeah. Well, watch me watch. Watch this. Hey, where do you think all that, those patterns started for you?
00:14:15:06 - 00:14:40:20
Emma
Well, I'm. I'm the rebel. I'm the second child and the rebel. I'm the maverick. And I learnt about through, Denise Jocko Thomas about money archetypes. So it actually came from one of the women summit. Kendall said the whole. That has been so liberating for me because it really speaks to that. It's a personality type. And, it's like, you know, the achiever, that there's some things that are quiet, you know, I mean, when I look back to childhood, it's there.
00:14:40:22 - 00:15:00:20
Emma
That doesn't mean then you have to go, oh, the only way for me to do things is to burn it to the ground and go hard or go home. It's just that then I need to work even more. So on prioritising the rest one prioritising the self-care. And it's potentially like reframing those things. It's like I have to challenge myself.
00:15:00:20 - 00:15:21:20
Emma
It's like, oh, how much sleep can I get? You know, how, how well can I rest? You know, how much space can I put in my diary? Like after gamify it and even, you know, the way I've made to is through, fabulous talent. And sometimes I find there's so many wonderful resources. But, you know, for a person like me, I could go all day.
00:15:21:22 - 00:15:42:17
Emma
Well, then we can do all of it. Yeah. And she used to say, do all the things. I am that person. But the way to approach it is to gamify it. Or maybe the game to me is to not do it all, you know, to make something, you know. So just to have maybe finding that fun in it.
00:15:42:19 - 00:15:50:19
Emma
And finding the, the joy in the consistency. So the joy in the wellness.
00:15:50:21 - 00:15:51:11
Chris
And do you see the.
00:15:51:11 - 00:15:53:02
Emma
Roller coaster.
00:15:53:04 - 00:16:13:10
Chris
And do you think like there was a, there was a point in your life where you started like playing those those games or running those patterns? Or do you think ever since you were a little girl, you've been doing that, that sort of thing? Or was there like a time where, where you thought, yeah, this is this is this is awesome.
00:16:13:10 - 00:16:24:15
Chris
This is the way, this is the way go this all or nothing get into a rebel maverick kind of thing. Or like, can you recall, when it kind of started for you.
00:16:24:17 - 00:16:44:00
Emma
Know, I think I think it's more like the realisation that that's been the pattern. So in the last few years of doing these personal development work, I mean, I started I stepped into coaching. So I've been running my business 16 years. Those ten years were, freelancer, very feast or famine, although it was a business, very freelancer.
00:16:44:00 - 00:17:03:10
Emma
So sole operator, and when I stepped into coaching and I got a coach, I invested in a coach, I think that's when I saw the, you know, the structuring. And since then I've had coaches and being courses and programs. So I've done a lot more of that personal reflection. So it's a lot more reflective and going, that's probably why that happened.
00:17:03:12 - 00:17:24:13
Emma
And totally being like, you know, it's a giving of my younger self of like, that was the journey. And that's the path that got me here. Those lessons I'm very grateful for, like a very extreme way to do it. But I'm thankful that I broke my back. I'm thankful that I had that moment because I now know the kind of the depths to like, kind of the low that it can go.
00:17:24:13 - 00:17:41:20
Emma
I know it is high. And so that, you know, I know how low it can go. I guess under the boundaries. And that's what my profile connection boundaries. But like a little bit of flex in the boundaries. And then that's a part of self-care too, you know, it's that learning those boundaries and learning to say no is such an important thing.
00:17:41:20 - 00:18:01:18
Emma
So and then I'd say probably where it all clicked into place and was became non-negotiable, was having a child because it's no longer about, you know, I can't I simply cannot do the all nighters. When we do different types of all nighters, knowing that I can't work till I'm blue in the face. I just cannot. And I have to think.
00:18:01:20 - 00:18:24:10
Emma
I have to think ahead in terms of if I don't go to bed, I'm going to suffer tomorrow, or if we don't have this business set up, in this way, it's going to take time from my child. So I think having him gave me the boundaries, although I knew these things in theory. I've got my coach in 2019 and I got pregnant in 2020, so it was all kind of around that time.
00:18:24:10 - 00:18:45:20
Emma
Obviously, 2020 was an interesting year of recalibration too, but I just really, you know, you say you missed the home. I really missed it. The business and I guess nested my habits and things like that. It's going, you know, it's no longer just about you probably, you know, having a partner two that's like when something's bigger than you because the only person suffering was me.
00:18:45:22 - 00:19:07:08
Emma
But now there's consequences to my actions that affect other people too, and ultimately affect my joy. And I'm just such a mama bear when it comes to my boundaries. Now, it's it's like if you're going to take time from, you know, my enjoyment, my freedom, my son's joy and freedom, like my family's time. The boundaries come up really soon.
00:19:07:09 - 00:19:24:17
Emma
So I think that's been really valuable for me. And recognising that I probably don't want to pass on or just understanding who I am, because you're seeing it reflected so much in such a real world situation.
00:19:24:19 - 00:19:43:14
Filly
So it sounds like, like in terms of the healing process, the mental breakdown. Was that more around the personal development work that you have been talking about and prioritising self-care, or did anything else make up the healing journey to come out of that?
00:19:43:15 - 00:20:09:04
Emma
You know, ironically, travel is still my self-care. Yeah. Although it can be, yeah, it can go to the. But it is my motivator, I guess. I don't quit, I don't live to work, I work to live, but really I work to travel, which is. Yeah. So because travel. So it's more to me than country taking, although I am trying to visit every unrecognised country in the world.
00:20:09:06 - 00:20:36:13
Emma
It's about the connection. It's the connection to country. It's the connection to people. It's the connection to self. Because when you're travelling, you do get to remove all of those roles, titles, things that might anchor you or restrict you. So there's just such a freedom in, in travel. And so like I joke, but it's true. It is easier for me to plan a trip to India for me to a visit tomorrow.
00:20:36:13 - 00:20:54:16
Emma
And you could be in India because I run a group retreat. I mean, I, I moved a retreat last year from Nepal to India. We did it. I had to plan probably within 15 minutes in my head. And but we had it done in six days, like an entire six people moving retreat. But try to ask me to go to bed at 10:00.
00:20:54:18 - 00:21:16:15
Emma
To that I ask, you know, like, do you want this or this to do not like that's decision fatigue, but like the bigger the thing. The easier it is. And for me, travel is like effortless. So me going to India is self-care and I, you know, taken care of. But I also take care of myself. So.
00:21:16:17 - 00:21:36:15
Filly
And is that because travelling and what that gives you is like it brings you joy. It's a higher value. And so therefore when you're living in alignment with that, it's easier, like it feels easier and more playful to do those things as opposed to need to go to bed by 10 p.m..
00:21:36:17 - 00:22:00:07
Emma
Yeah, because I think that again, like the the routine in this structure, I resist. But like funnily enough, you sort of end up creating a different kind of a very free, but you still have a structure. Well, you travel like you still have a rhythm maybe. And what then? I've done is like, it's obviously I don't want to always just be running away, which potentially was my strategy.
00:22:00:09 - 00:22:23:23
Emma
You know, it was a way to help, but I didn't. I don't come home and have those holiday blues because when I bring the travel philosophy and the travel mentality and the traveller mindset to home, so we do travelling. The things that you do on holiday, we do at home as well. So that's how I keep that going.
00:22:23:23 - 00:22:34:04
Emma
And then that is like when I view it like that, that's then a way to sort of bring that self-care home is like or treat home like a holiday.
00:22:34:06 - 00:23:15:19
Filly
That's I went we go to Fiji, it wasn't, it was 2024 and we went for two weeks and it was lovely and amazing. And I had never experienced coming home from a holiday and feeling those post blues until after that trip. And I'm like, I actually feel a bit depressed. My mood is really low. This is weird because I don't usually experience that, but it was really just a signal that there was something that happened during those two weeks in Fiji that I wasn't giving myself at home, and two main things was, like connection and quality time with family and also adventure.
00:23:15:19 - 00:23:41:02
Filly
So that's then when we as a family were like, okay, cool, we're going to climb the mountains and we're going to do all the hikes in Tasmania, because we can do that any time, like we can every weekend. And we could go in, find another amazing place in this tiny state that we live in that we've never been before, while also connecting and going through trials and having a child that's winging that.
00:23:41:02 - 00:23:59:17
Filly
Also, she's so happy at the end. And so, yeah, I totally resonate with what you're saying because that was that was a big light bulb moment in terms of there's something that I wasn't giving myself at home that I can recreate without needing to go on an international holiday every two weeks.
00:23:59:18 - 00:24:16:13
Emma
But and it's funny because, you know, a friend just said to me, like yesterday, I want to buy an island. And I said back, well, we literally might be moving to an island. My husband is potentially we're putting an application today to for a job in the Bahamas now. So but then and we've just been on an island, we're on Samoa.
00:24:16:15 - 00:24:35:02
Emma
But then I said to my son, you know, and I could, I could say to my friend, we live in an island. Tasmania is an island as well. It's, you know, like we want that island life. We just live on a very giant island. Yeah, we have island lives. And, you know, we're blessed to, because we live in Australia is number one holiday destination.
00:24:35:04 - 00:24:55:15
Emma
The gold Coast. But there are people here who would still treat this as, you know, going to be at home. And you're like, everyone comes here for a holiday. Yeah, you make the holiday. Yeah, but you have to say it like that. Yeah. And I'd wake. Before we went to Samoa, I had for the first time in years that reversed to you where I was having the craving for the holiday.
00:24:55:17 - 00:25:11:05
Emma
I was counting down the whole day. I was like, I just can't wait to go on holiday. And I was like. And I got really upset one day and I was like, this is not the life that I've created. This is not the life I love. That's what made it that can't be hard days and things like that and challenging moments.
00:25:11:07 - 00:25:32:04
Emma
But to have that like, yeah, that that's going to fix everything in that feeling that like I just need to get to that and wishing away those days now that like you said, it's a signal. Something has to change. I can't continue like this. And yes, it was a wonderful, restorative, relaxing holiday. But that cannot be the feeling.
00:25:32:08 - 00:25:55:08
Emma
And I do believe I truly believe there's ways to bring those holiday elements, like even reading a book on the couch, you know, just take a time to sit and read the book. But we can't because there's the washing and we've got to pick up the kids. And I don't know, the name is calling. Well, it's not a relaxing, but well, no, no, you can choose at any point to go and sit on the couch and read a book as you would in your holiday villa.
00:25:55:10 - 00:25:59:09
Emma
Yeah. Why do we not do that? And it's a mindset thing. Yeah.
00:25:59:11 - 00:26:16:14
Chris
I, I feel like as you, as you're saying these things and Filly you've talked about this before as well. To me I never realised that that that was hard to, to like because I feel like.
00:26:16:15 - 00:26:22:06
Filly
That comes naturally to you. Is that what you mean? Yeah. Like Chris will be out in the hammock for half the day sometimes.
00:26:22:06 - 00:26:27:05
Chris
Just like I didn't know people struggled. This sort of thing. Yeah.
00:26:27:07 - 00:26:47:01
Emma
To be happy. It's crazy as an artist at that. He's. And the going to sleep thing. Like he's literally like, let me help you. Okay? I hope you're ready. This is how I get to sleep. Okay. So coming in, like, really pulled me in and he's like, okay, close your eyes first is like. And think your escape seriously.
00:26:47:02 - 00:26:54:08
Emma
And you're like, oh, sweetie. I was like, oh, I have to complete a mind set that works for you.
00:26:54:10 - 00:26:59:09
Filly
Can I take your subconscious patterning around sleep and just plug it into my head? Right. So,
00:26:59:11 - 00:27:08:19
Chris
Where was I the other day? You know, and I just fell. Fell asleep. I was in church. I was sitting in church and someone was talking. And then apparently I started snoring.
00:27:08:19 - 00:27:12:05
Filly
He started breathing, and.
00:27:12:07 - 00:27:28:23
Chris
And then I woke up. I'm like, oh, man, I feel good. I'm recharged. It feels like you were snoring. Oh, my, my brother in law was sitting in front of me. And I was like, did I snore? And he's like, yeah, why? Oh, wow. Good. Amazing.
00:27:29:00 - 00:27:48:10
Filly
Now it's interesting because Chris and I, And this is something you help people do, business owners. It's like, how can you meld business and running a business and making money while travelling and giving yourself self-care? So Chris and I actually did a bit of an experiment just recently, and we, went on a road trip for four weeks.
00:27:48:16 - 00:28:10:09
Filly
Oh yeah. Which is the longest period of time away from home that we have ever been since being married. And having kids. And we weren't working as much because it was over Christmas time, but I was still working probably at 25, 30%, compared to what I usually do. So. And it was great and it totally worked.
00:28:10:11 - 00:28:26:15
Filly
And I remember at the two week mark, Chris and I looked at each other and we're like, we're so glad we've we've booked this for four weeks. We're not ready to come home yet. This is amazing. Maybe we could do this for three months. Maybe we could do this for a year. Like all these possibilities opening up to us.
00:28:26:17 - 00:28:45:19
Filly
It's something interesting having at the three week marks for me, and I think for you too, as it's like, I'm ready to go home, I want structure and I want routine, and I want my own food and my own kitchen. And just like the convenience of having my clinic and knowing that the Wi-Fi is always going to work when I meet with my clients.
00:28:45:21 - 00:29:10:00
Filly
And so that was an interesting lesson to one. I had so much gratitude when I came home, and just like the nesting experience of having your own space, and yeah, it's just been really interesting. The thoughts and feelings I have around it. And I love travelling, so I don't know, there's not I don't know if there's anything in that.
00:29:10:00 - 00:29:39:22
Filly
I mean, there's lots in that. We don't need to talk into it, but it's just like I had an office experience to what I had in Fiji in terms of we need more adventure and like, let's have a holiday while we're at home. Whereas this one was almost like probably went a little bit to outside of my, zone of tolerance with travel for my, yeah, my self, my soul, my system to just be like, I just want to hibernate and just have like ritual and routine now and both both feet.
00:29:39:22 - 00:29:40:17
Filly
Right.
00:29:40:18 - 00:29:59:04
Emma
Yeah, yeah. And you, you test that. I think that's the thing that I find probably with families and with parents, is that they're just so hesitant to even try it because of what could go wrong, or if it doesn't work as opposed to like what worked for us in one year is not working for us another year.
00:29:59:06 - 00:30:34:03
Emma
We know that our family for them three weeks is actually ideal. So that that moving true, three weeks is great. And I think sort of a vacation like that's more leisure is ten days is an ideal amount of time. And I think, what people overlook that can be the probably one of the most restorative trips there is, is a 3 or 4 day up to three nights away, I think is genuinely one of the most even more restorative than those longer trips, because it's just the amount of time that you're going to be able to relax.
00:30:34:05 - 00:30:54:11
Emma
You know, you don't need to do too much prep. So the landed the long weekend, like such a fan of it. And people think it's too short, but even like a ski weekend, I think that it's so, you know, physically, physically tired during this complete, different world. It's so refreshing. And so then you come back and you can slot back in.
00:30:54:11 - 00:31:13:04
Emma
So I think different trips for different seasons, different stages and ages, whether you work or you don't work and you can always be learning and adapting and not going, there's always gonna be something's going to work and it's always gonna be something that doesn't work. But I guess it's at least do it and at least plan it and put it in.
00:31:13:04 - 00:31:43:20
Emma
And the reason we went to Samoa and had that very relaxing, very slow, very island style holiday was because we did a three and a half week road trip in the US and we were like, that's looking very attractive, you know? Yes, I okay, our ideal year might be, a ski weekend or, you know, long ski weekend, a cruise where we completely switch off because I want to get the white weather that to three day or a week, a Pacific Island type holiday, which is cultural.
00:31:43:21 - 00:32:05:02
Emma
The kind of close ish, that's very much our family vibe and then want adventure and that's like all of them. And I was like, but potentially that's 4 or 5 weeks. Like, I'm not saying eight, 23 weeks. I'm saying three day. But having those going there, the style of trips that work for us and knowing that they're in the year, like how beautiful.
00:32:05:07 - 00:32:28:07
Filly
Yeah, that's nice. I like that because I, I without. So we camped and we camped in all three camp spots there some time, and we never knew where we were going to stay that night. So it was very there was no structure at all. And coming home, I'm like, I want to do this again because I want to go to Uluru.
00:32:28:07 - 00:32:46:20
Filly
And how amazing would it be to travel like this and camp and be connected to an Earth? But I feel like I've just had a baby. Like I can't even think about doing that next week, maybe even like a maybe even a year's time. So that makes a lot of sense. Like, I could do it for where I am right now.
00:32:46:20 - 00:33:08:02
Filly
I'm like an adventure once a year. Epic adventure would be awesome. Because I noticed I had a little feelings of guilt where it's like, oh, but I should have. I should be so grateful for what I did, for what we did. Why am I like having these feelings? And like, I just want to go to Bali and just, like, veg by a pool, it's like, I can do it all.
00:33:08:04 - 00:33:17:14
Filly
Let's just do it all. And it's the rhythms and the seasons of of life and being a human being, everything. Everything fits.
00:33:17:16 - 00:33:33:09
Emma
I think also like that two things can be true at once. You really can experience. And you can also take the learnings. Yeah. Can we do it like this again? No. Am I grateful that we could do it? Yes. And I think so. I think that might have come up. You might be hearing I just want to make sure that your audience know.
00:33:33:09 - 00:33:52:05
Emma
And my audience always know that, like, I am not nailing it all the time. This is not roses and sunshine all the time. I'm still learning these lessons. I'm just certainly not going to those lows again. And I have these. I have a very quick, compass redirect. So minds like, you know, travel is my North Star.
00:33:52:05 - 00:34:15:08
Emma
Pleasure is my North star. I'm very able I'm very quickly able to course correct when I get those feelings. So getting that sense, recognising it, being aware of it, going this isn't this isn't the life I'm loving in the life I want to be living. Okay, so what needs to change? And we tweak and change and so but don't be afraid to try at all.
00:34:15:10 - 00:34:35:05
Emma
Or to say it didn't work that time so it can never work again I think. Yeah. So I talk about having a harmony and it's about you know, in a harmony sometimes things, you know, you think about an orchestra, you know, sometimes the drums allowed, sometimes the flute to louder, sometimes it's more violin, you know, when they all play together, it's beautiful.
00:34:35:05 - 00:34:51:18
Emma
So sometimes it's going to be more work. Sometimes it's gonna be more travel and leisure. Sometimes it's going to be more self-care. Sometimes trips will be all of the things. But, you know, my lesson is not every trip has to be a pleasure trip. Every trip have all the elements. Sometimes it is just a leisure trip. Sometimes it is.
00:34:51:20 - 00:35:01:15
Emma
I'm just going and I'm doing my work. Sometimes, you know, it is just. I just need self-care and that's all it is. And Jaco all okay.
00:35:01:17 - 00:35:02:10
Filly
Yeah.
00:35:02:12 - 00:35:20:11
Emma
Yeah. And it's learning and it's all okay. But what works for you too is not going to work for my family. Yeah. And that's also leaving the keys. Like living a life you love is not going. My little life plan. It's creating your life plan. So you're. Yeah.
00:35:20:13 - 00:35:59:12
Filly
Which probably leads to the next question. And I. And the way that you were talking, I don't think there's a specific answer to it. So when you talk about harmonising business or work, travelling and self-care, that might for one person look like they're a nomad and they're working on the road all year round while travelling, whereas someone else might be probably like more the way that you were describing it, where it's like, I know that I've got these trips scheduled in, and some might be for work and some might be for leisure, like what does that is an individual for each person in terms of how they create that map.
00:35:59:13 - 00:36:25:22
Emma
Yeah. And that's why I don't I think we've been so tricked into this goal setting and success as a destination. Whereas like a goal, you know I'm you okay. Satisfied. And I love the way that they articulate a goal. It's an aim or direction. The goals give you aim or direction. And I was talking to another friend the other day and it's about like just because you set a goal and then you don't achieve it.
00:36:25:22 - 00:36:44:05
Emma
It's not necessarily failure. Like you still went in the direction of, you know, it's like a target when you're playing darts, you know, you might not hit the bullseye, but you still get points because you still landed on the board. So it might not be exactly as you intended it to be, but you certainly went in the right direction.
00:36:44:07 - 00:37:05:11
Emma
And just because you want something today doesn't mean that you're going to want that same thing in a year or five years. So these are very like linear, very set in stone ways of being. And so again, come back to the question of what, which is a question you can ask yourself every single day, am I living a life I love now?
00:37:05:13 - 00:37:36:13
Emma
And the answer is no. Then we don't collapse. And below ground I go through. And it's like it could be minor tweaks. Like I'm not sitting here telling anyone to quit their job. They are a digital nomad or you know, to, you know, blow off the popsicle stand like it's like just it's just tweaks it. It's just that slight recognising of going like, seriously, it could be clearly I want to write books because clearly the thing for me right now, let me just taking time and day to day to to read a book, to go into another world, to escape, to have that quiet for me.
00:37:36:14 - 00:37:54:00
Emma
That could be the thing that you add that might be it, you know, going to be loved walking on the beach at home. Yeah. Sorry. In Fiji. Well, is there a beautiful place in nature you could walk me? Your house was that way in fact, it. Was it the quiet morning or the family connection? Well, we need to get back to having Sunday family day.
00:37:54:05 - 00:38:15:15
Emma
And that is precious and sacred and and, you know, boundaries. So everyone's is going to be different. And I really loved, a friend last year was going to come up for a private retreat. There were four of us getting together for a business, you know, played retreat, and she called me. She's like, I'm so sorry. I just can't do it.
00:38:15:20 - 00:38:32:21
Emma
She was coming from Melbourne. She said, I've been travelling a little bit for speaking. It's I just I'm really I don't love the travel. And just like that. I'm so sorry. Like, if I was going to take it as a personal insult or a critique or whatever. And she said, the kids are missing me and I've been missing them, and I just think I really need to be here.
00:38:32:21 - 00:38:52:18
Emma
And I was like, I love that for you. I love that you know that about yourself. I love that you're being honest about it. And hey, why don't we bring the retreat to you next time and we can come to know, you know, it's not a problem at all. And I just want people to be honest with themselves about what they want and need in this season.
00:38:52:20 - 00:39:10:00
Emma
Not I think the issue with socials or with or in any, you know, we have this comparison of because, you know, Chris and Phil, you're doing this why I should do it this way. You know, because Emma's doing it this way. And I'm like, I will literally actively tell people in my book, please do not do it like, do as I say, not as I've done.
00:39:10:05 - 00:39:29:14
Emma
Well, it's the buffet you choose. Yeah, I've done it. And I've been here and I've made the mistakes and I'm. That's why I'm sharing with you. So don't do it my way. Because it won't be the right way. And even my way of ten years ago is not the right way for me now. So how are you living a life you love now?
00:39:29:16 - 00:39:56:06
Filly
Yeah, I love that now. You're also. You mentioned retreat. So you hold a lot of retreats. And you talk about these as being self-care rather than strategy. So sometimes people are like at the brink of burnout or breakdown, and it's like, I need a retreat to fix myself. What are your what are your thoughts around how to approach retreats?
00:39:56:08 - 00:40:20:04
Emma
Yeah. Well, it's the travel is self-care. And it's, travel is as or retreat as strategy or retreat as, not for strategy, but as a strategy to, keep you going and keep you moving towards your goals as opposed to only as a reward or only as a recovery. So, you know, and we can retreat in so many ways.
00:40:20:04 - 00:40:36:13
Emma
I think the other problem is that people think of retreat, they think of health and wellness. And as the only type of retreat, they might think that the only types of retreats, you know, a week or ten days long in Bali or Thailand when they were retreats all over the world of all different lengths, for all different reasons.
00:40:36:13 - 00:40:56:22
Emma
At any given time, you can go on a solo retreat. You could go on a small tailored retreat, or you know, what is beneficial about what I do is that, you know, it is a set date. It is a set location. You don't have to think. I think that's what people love about it so much. They like I'm feeling called to say, yes, I think I need this.
00:40:56:22 - 00:41:26:20
Emma
I'm not exactly sure why. So they read all the things, but there's something that's calling them. That's my ideal client. You like? Yeah. You don't have to be broken to take a break. Yeah. And have this break, which might be about reconnection to yourself. It might be about rewarding yourself and and looking at what's next. It might be about needing to get to know other people, because there's a real benefit of being with other people in this wonderful place, like there's so many, valuable outcomes from a retreat.
00:41:26:20 - 00:41:46:13
Emma
But the number one reason you should be going on a retreat or one would go on a retreat. No shoulds is the transformation. Yeah. And I can't promise what that transformation is for you. I can promise you will have fun. It might be before, during or six months or a year after the retreat. I'm still getting benefit of the passion, the retreat, a silent meditation if you believe it.
00:41:46:13 - 00:41:54:04
Emma
I did wonderfully, silent. I'm still getting benefit of that. And that was 14 years ago. Yeah.
00:41:54:04 - 00:41:54:21
Filly
Wow.
00:41:54:23 - 00:42:11:11
Emma
But the effects are long after that. Your ultimately retreat. Should you pay for the transformation? And I think in some ways you need something to change, something to shift your feeling that a retreat could be the perfect place to do that work.
00:42:11:12 - 00:42:37:12
Filly
Yeah. I've shared this on the podcast. So for people who are listening that listen to our podcast, I went on a retreat last year. It was a past client had put it on, kind of one from the birthing of all the work that she'd done with Chris and I and with other modalities. But I remember before I said yes to that, I was just getting clear on, like, my, my vision board and dreaming.
00:42:37:12 - 00:42:58:08
Filly
And it's like, what would I like? And just retreats, kept coming up into my head. It's just like more retreats in your life and like, okay. And to be honest, I hadn't ever been on. I probably know because retreats come in all shapes and sizes, so I've done like half day or four day kind of workshop retreats things, but not go away on my own with a bunch of people that I don't know.
00:42:58:10 - 00:43:22:09
Filly
So I said yes to that. Not because I needed it in terms of like, I'm struggling here or because I was rewarding myself, but like purely just as an expansion. But it was very interesting. Probably like two months leading up. I really needed it. Yeah. So so that passed me that said yes. I didn't know that she needed it.
00:43:22:11 - 00:43:35:20
Filly
And I don't know if it was like some sort of like the universe working in my favour, but it was just like I was at the point of breaking through a transformation that happened in three days during that retreat. So stay really powerful.
00:43:35:22 - 00:43:54:21
Emma
Yeah. And I, I just think that is such a gift to yourself. And then you know what I'm doing now, or more, I guess people would see me as a retreat host. But I'm really bringing together that the pleasure life and my pleasure coaching, in it that I'm now actually my focus is to help retreat hosts.
00:43:54:23 - 00:44:13:12
Emma
Because what I say, linking back to your work is burnout in the retreat hosts. And the sad thing is that I'm sure you see a lot of retreats out there. They either sometimes you'll see them and hidden being talked about, and then I'll ask somebody, how did the retreat go? And they're like, oh, you know, I didn't get the numbers or I didn't go ahead or did.
00:44:13:17 - 00:44:37:05
Emma
So they just quietly disappear or they do run, but they run with that person giving so much energy, so much time. And then potentially not making money and then feeling like they weren't rewarded or remunerated. And so what's the point? Yeah. So my, you know, message is that retreats can be this truly transformative offering for the individual, for your guests.
00:44:37:05 - 00:44:59:03
Emma
And you're in a service role. Yes, but also in, for the host, it can transform your life and your business and be a very profitable income stream. It doesn't have to be done. With this attitude that the only way to do it is to break even or at a loss. Like, yeah, why? We even I can't believe people are going into it with that.
00:44:59:03 - 00:45:17:03
Emma
And I'm like, oh gosh, no, please don't. So I really want to take all of that experience. And what like it really does add to my pleasure life because it gets to take all the boxes I'm running, a business activity, I'm doing my coaching work that I love in a beautiful place. Yeah, we beautiful people with lots of space.
00:45:17:07 - 00:45:36:03
Emma
It's got the travel and it's got the self-care. Because by nature, retreats have an element of self-care. But I have to practice that while I'm on it. And if I turn around and run a retreat, that's like jam packed action. Lots of things. Me doing the cooking and the these I stick around with that's not practising what I preach.
00:45:36:03 - 00:46:08:02
Emma
So I will take risks and I will take time away. Like during the retreat and go, I'm going to go for walks at the creek by myself, you know, to give someone else permission that they can do the same. Yeah. And so yeah, I think they're a really beautiful, especially now world with coaching programs and courses to do this, in-person work that can connect you in such a powerful shift you can have in a short time, as well as a long term benefit of these beautiful networks and and people you get to spend time with.
00:46:08:02 - 00:46:11:22
Emma
And yeah, so perfect pleasure activity in my mind I love it.
00:46:11:22 - 00:46:15:18
Filly
What's happening for 2026. What retreats do you have on offer.
00:46:15:18 - 00:46:35:05
Emma
So in a few weeks I'm off to Kangaroo Valley. So it's a beautiful place called Barranca Retreats and it's just in nature. This is Big Escarpment. It's got a beautiful energy. There's a creek in just the way that the place is set up. It's very much lends itself to hosting retreats. So that will be our second time running there.
00:46:35:05 - 00:46:59:00
Emma
I usually do different venues, but I got the demand to go back, so, I did that. But then going a bit more on the adventurous, realm and we're off to Bhutan, which is, the they write their GDP on happiness. It's the happiness allowed. And, Nepal. So I'm doing back to back. So it's the, Himalayan journey of a lifetime.
00:46:59:00 - 00:47:00:15
Emma
So I'm really excited to.
00:47:00:16 - 00:47:01:16
Filly
See people there.
00:47:01:16 - 00:47:19:17
Emma
And and expansion is the word. Actually, it's really such being in those mountainous places is such an expansive experience. And those locations do the heavy lifting because I just instantly you can't help but think differently when you're looking at these landscapes.
00:47:19:19 - 00:47:34:22
Filly
So cool. Okay, so how can people find out more about you? You've also got your book, the Art of pleasure. And I think you've got a link to, to get a chapter or some chapters from your book.
00:47:35:00 - 00:47:55:14
Emma
Yes. So if you head to. So I've got the two businesses. So ima level a you is all things pleasure. And then receive it and receive what I you which is the retreats. So on our home page on the for rest to receive there is, the free chapters at the bottom. So a free chapter on retreats.
00:47:55:14 - 00:48:04:23
Emma
So that will kind of introduce you to both at the same time. And that Isaiah chapter straight out of my book, the Art of Pleasure Loss.
00:48:05:01 - 00:48:10:18
Filly
And make sure you follow me on his socials and see all the wonderful places she's visiting.
00:48:10:20 - 00:48:25:06
Emma
Yeah, yeah, it's like sometimes a little bit of FOMO, but just know that sometimes, you know, sometimes I make roads for my own backs. I always share the, the hashtag Epic Files, as well as the wonderful, beautiful, exotic destinations I learned.
00:48:25:11 - 00:48:38:21
Filly
Yeah, yeah, because I think that's learning with travelling is you can have the highest of highs like peak human experience and also the lowest of lows.
00:48:38:23 - 00:48:39:07
Emma
00:48:39:09 - 00:48:43:14
Filly
And they also make the funniest stories too, in hindsight.
00:48:43:16 - 00:48:55:01
Emma
Having a book now, it's good cuz I just had a massive fail with, a similar accommodation like. And I just the good thing now is I'm just like, it's going to be a great section in the book. Yeah, it's going to be a great part of the next book.
00:48:55:04 - 00:48:56:07
Filly
Yeah, I really like that.
00:48:56:08 - 00:49:02:18
Emma
It's like going to be a great podcast episode. Like everything is content. Yeah.
00:49:02:20 - 00:49:08:03
Filly
All right. Well, thank you so much for sharing your love, Lee. Wisdom.
00:49:08:08 - 00:49:10:11
Chris
Lovely. I love it.
00:49:10:13 - 00:49:16:22
Emma
Yeah. Thank you, thank you. Thanks.
00:49:17:00 - 00:49:27:02
Filly
Thank you so much for listening. We so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love by sharing this episode.
00:49:27:04 - 00:49:45:11
Chris
You can also write your own state of burnout and the root cause contributors by taking our Ending body Burnout assessment on our website. And if you're interested in learning about that group one on one ending body burnout programs, shoot us a DM via Instagram or Facebook. Have the best day ever.
