00:00:03:07 - 00:00:16:23
Chris
Hello and welcome to the ending body Burnout show. We are your host, Chris and Filly, co-founders of a multi winning functional medicine practice serving busy people with energy, mood and gut issues.
00:00:17:00 - 00:00:24:21
Filly
Well, business, addictive doing, people pleasing and perfectionism might be the norm. It's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
00:00:25:00 - 00:00:38:04
Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic root root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplements hoping something might stick.
00:00:38:05 - 00:00:46:07
Filly
So get ready to heal your body, get your spark back deeply, connect with yourself, and step into the life of your dreams.
00:00:46:10 - 00:00:55:05
Chris
Let's dive in.
00:00:55:07 - 00:01:19:20
Filly
Hello! Welcome to the podcast A in for a treat. Today we have a pretty phenomenal human being, doctor Paul Taylor, coming on to the podcast to talk all about stress and hardiness. So when I heard the word hardiness and he has it recently put out a book, The Hardiness Effect, it was kind of like, What does that actually mean.
00:01:19:20 - 00:01:46:13
Filly
Usually my brain when I he hardy in kind of like the health and fitness space my brain thinks about go hard or go home, which is not actually what we're talking about. What we are talking about is how dependent on the psychological characteristics that a human being has cultivated within themselves, and that could be as a child or as an adult.
00:01:46:15 - 00:02:13:20
Filly
We can change our brain to, cultivate, hardiness characteristics. So depending on whether people have these characteristics within them will be dependent, the research shows on whether they thrive with stress or they actually crumble and burn out with stress. And I think that the listeners listening, I know that there are a lot of listeners who are in burnout who are trying to heal, who, might be feeling stuck as well.
00:02:13:20 - 00:02:49:14
Filly
I think there will be so many really great gold nuggets in this episode today. And some specific things to start cultivating to help you to heal and to thrive and to grow. So Doctor Paul Taylor is a psychology physiologist with psychology, separate master's degrees in exercise science and nutrition, and a postgraduate qualification in neuroscience. He is a former Royal Navy officer and former adjunct professor at University of San Francisco.
00:02:49:16 - 00:03:18:01
Filly
Paul is a leading expert in the hardiness, the cutting edge science that transforms stress into competitive advantage. So he is also the author of bestselling, multiple award winning book Death by Comfort, and has just released his second book, The Hardiness Effect, which we're going to talk a lot about in today's interview. He is the host of the Hardiness podcast, which is in the top 0.5% of all podcasts globally.
00:03:18:03 - 00:03:44:18
Filly
Yours truly. A Filly Bellette will be featured on his podcast soon. I am being interviewed on his podcast also, and he has developed a hardiness app to help people develop this crucial life skill. So he has also co-hosted the TV series Body and Brain Overhaul, appeared regularly on The Biggest Loser Australia as a subject matter expert on biological testing, and has been voted Australian Fitness Industry Presenter of the year twice.
00:03:44:20 - 00:04:12:07
Filly
So we've got a little bit of a famous person on today. He actually had to jump off the interview right at the end because he was being interviewed on, I think it was sunrise. TV so anyway, I know you're going to love this, this episode, Chris and I jumped off and we were, like, buzzing with different ideas and putting, connecting dots together.
00:04:12:09 - 00:04:23:06
Chris
Great guys. And welcome to this episode of the Ending Body Burn Burnout Show. We have a guest with us on today's show, Paul Taylor. Thanks, Paul, for for coming on the annual burnout show.
00:04:23:08 - 00:04:26:07
Dr Paul
It is an absolute pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me on.
00:04:26:09 - 00:04:33:06
Filly
Awesome. So actually, Doctor Paul Taylor, I think you've recently just completed a PhD in psychology. Is that right?
00:04:33:08 - 00:04:37:04
Dr Paul
Yeah. That's right. So I do kind of sometimes get surprised when people say, doctor.
00:04:37:06 - 00:04:42:09
Filly
It's like oh, oh, oh, that's me.
00:04:42:11 - 00:05:13:11
Filly
Sorry. Good. Okay. We're super excited to talk to you. Ending body burnout. Sure. So a lot of our listeners have experienced a lot of chronic stress, burnt themselves out and looking for ways to recover. So, and you have a really unique background. So a former British armed forces officer, psycho physiologist and doctor in psychology, now neuroscientist, exercise scientist, nutritionist, cut kind of like this beautiful holistic bag of tricks.
00:05:13:13 - 00:05:14:22
Filly
Yes. I'm not.
00:05:14:23 - 00:05:17:14
Dr Paul
That was established by design actually is.
00:05:17:14 - 00:05:18:09
Filly
To.
00:05:18:11 - 00:05:40:07
Dr Paul
To to to cover different areas that interact because I think it's really important. And, you know, when it comes to, to mental health, I think anybody who thinks that you can optimise mental health just with thinking skills, I think they're batshit crazy. And, and vice versa, physical health. There's a huge psychological component and not as well.
00:05:40:09 - 00:05:49:20
Filly
Yeah. 100%. We're very much on like you can't separate the mind and the body. You can't separate the different parts of us. They're all constantly communicating with each other.
00:05:49:22 - 00:05:58:01
Dr Paul
Absolutely. You know where that comes from? This idea that they're separate. Rene Descartes, they've run.
00:05:58:03 - 00:05:59:03
Filly
So far.
00:05:59:05 - 00:06:25:18
Dr Paul
Hey, I think it was in the 1600s. It was around the time of Galileo when Galileo, wrote his paper suggesting that the earth was not the centre of the universe. And he got persecuted by the Catholic Church. They were going to execute him. They ended up putting him in under house arrest and, and that made scientists a bit nervous, as you could imagine.
00:06:25:20 - 00:06:47:03
Dr Paul
And so right after that Descartes wrote his thing, and basically his paper on dualism and said, mind and body are separate entities. The mind is the realm of the church and religion and the body is the realm of science. And the Catholic Church went, oh yeah, that works. So from that point on.
00:06:47:04 - 00:06:48:03
Filly
Oh, you're a.
00:06:48:03 - 00:06:57:06
Dr Paul
Scientist in the West. You never spoke about the mind, right? And that has actually endured all the way to modern science.
00:06:57:09 - 00:06:58:15
Filly
Wow.
00:06:58:17 - 00:07:00:10
Dr Paul
And we know it's bullshit, right?
00:07:00:10 - 00:07:01:04
Filly
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:07:01:08 - 00:07:02:07
Dr Paul
Affect is.
00:07:02:07 - 00:07:05:13
Filly
Massive. Yeah, yeah. But that but.
00:07:05:18 - 00:07:17:01
Dr Paul
That's where it all comes from. And that's why eastern science, whether it was from from the Arab countries, are eastern science much more holistic than Western science.
00:07:17:03 - 00:07:37:21
Filly
That is so interesting. I may not have been on a big health journey myself because I had a lot of chronic health issues, and I very much started with the physical. It's like it's in my body. I feel the physical symptoms, it must be my physical body. Over years I realised that wasn't the case. But when I came across like mind in the placebo effect, I'm like, that's so woo woo!
00:07:37:22 - 00:07:57:23
Filly
But sharing that history, it's like it's actually not at all. Yeah. It's big. It's yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. So I'm curious how you went from being in the Army to being more in the health space and looking at human performance. Was that like your own personal journey of moving out of that all it all combined?
00:07:57:23 - 00:08:22:09
Dr Paul
Yeah. Well. Well, actually, I joined the military quite late. I went and I did a degree and they entered a master's degree in sports science. And so I joined the military, I think I was 25, when I, when I signed up, and flew in helicopters for eight years. But my secondary roles tended to be as sports officer because of my exercise science background.
00:08:22:11 - 00:08:50:13
Dr Paul
Them. And I was doing helicopter search and rescue in Scotland. I there's a lot of sitting around waiting for the buzzer to go off. So I did a part time master's in nutrition because I was I was interested in that. And then when I left the forces, I decided that that was what I wanted to do. And I moved to Australia and set up as a physiologist, a nutritionist, and then realised after a while it's not about telling people what to do, it's about helping them to change their behaviour.
00:08:50:14 - 00:08:52:09
Dr Paul
So I went and studied neuroscience.
00:08:52:12 - 00:08:52:18
Filly
00:08:53:12 - 00:09:10:00
Dr Paul
And then realised that, you know, what's really missing here is the psychology piece. So, you know, it's been a journey that has evolved over time. But I think my military background plays into what I do today. So it's kind of all part of the big puzzle.
00:09:10:02 - 00:09:19:02
Filly
And did you have any I guess like issues with your health or you were just interested in it earlier on and that what led you into just now.
00:09:19:02 - 00:09:39:20
Dr Paul
I was just interested in it. Early on. Never had any issues with my health. Up until this year when I find out, quite fortunately, I play soccer with a cardiologist and I'd say to him, hey, man, I'm not in my 50s. I want to get a full check-up of my heart. I'm not really interested in cholesterol.
00:09:39:20 - 00:09:51:15
Dr Paul
I don't think it's a predictive. And he said, fine, come in, let's do a hoop test. SAT me down and said, hey, could you reduce this? You have really fit bodies is that you were born with a congenital heart defect.
00:09:51:21 - 00:09:52:22
Filly
Oh, wow.
00:09:53:02 - 00:10:02:20
Dr Paul
I was born with a bicuspid aortic valve rather than a tricuspid. And over time it becomes more and more problematic. And and it would have eventually killed me.
00:10:03:01 - 00:10:04:17
Filly
Whoa.
00:10:04:19 - 00:10:09:17
Dr Paul
Were you not have known about it? Until it was almost too late.
00:10:09:22 - 00:10:15:03
Filly
Gee whiz. Where are you getting any little signals to make you want to look into the heart? No.
00:10:15:05 - 00:10:40:13
Dr Paul
No, no, not nothing at all. But but reflecting back, you know, once I knew, I was like, because I noticed this year that my fitness had dropped off and, you know, I was paying it over 35 soccer, 53. And I just put it down that, you know, it's just father Time. It's just catching up with me. But in retrospect, it was it was my heart, my regurgitation level.
00:10:40:13 - 00:10:59:01
Dr Paul
So what happens? I got a leaky aortic valve, so the blood pumps out some of it because my valve didn't shut. Right. Over time, it leaks back in. You get what's called regurgitation. So my regurgitation was about 50%. So half of all the blood pumping out of my heart was coming back in.
00:10:59:03 - 00:11:00:16
Filly
So, wonder.
00:11:00:16 - 00:11:04:06
Dr Paul
I was starting to notice my fit. Yeah.
00:11:04:08 - 00:11:11:11
Filly
So interesting. I wonder if you would have had symptoms if you hadn't have been fit and healthy and, you know, looking after you.
00:11:11:11 - 00:11:39:10
Dr Paul
Yeah, well, it would it would have taken longer, right. If you, if you're not fit and healthy, if you're not active, you don't notice it for longer. I say, just after I had my open heart surgery in January, I saw an article from Roger black, who is a famous, 800 metre runner in the UK, who had the exact same thing as me, but he knew about it from the age of 11 because often it's congenital.
00:11:39:12 - 00:11:41:21
Dr Paul
But anyway, we're not here to talk about.
00:11:41:22 - 00:12:09:02
Filly
Something like Segway. I like Segway, so was a good. Okay, so you have a new book out, the hardness hardiness effect, which I'm very curious to dig into. Like, essentially it's around stress, optimising health, living longer. Can you talk about stress? First of all, because I know a lot of our clients have experienced stress, and trauma.
00:12:09:04 - 00:12:20:09
Filly
And sometimes the word hardiness might be like, what do I have to like hard on myself up and force my way self through stress. So can you talk about how you're using the term hardiness?
00:12:20:13 - 00:12:43:22
Dr Paul
Yeah, yeah. So hardiness it isn't my term. It's part of the research. So cognitive hardiness was first discovered oh 30 odd moment and 30 years ago, when Salvator Mundi and Suzanne Cassava were doing a big, study. They were psychologists just working in the the Bell Telephone Corporation, which was going through this huge restructure, and the business was struggling.
00:12:43:22 - 00:13:10:16
Dr Paul
And, over time, they noticed a huge amount of the employees, got badly affected by stress and got burnt out, but about 30% of them actually improved their performance under stress. And because they were psychologists, they looked into it deeply, and they find that they all exhibited these three psychological orientations, which is now become known as hardiness.
00:13:10:18 - 00:13:35:01
Dr Paul
And then, the US military really took up the baton on the research, particularly a guy called Paul Barton. They find that hardiness actually predicted who passed and who field basic military training. You're right. They thought that and found it. Hardiness predicted who passed special forces selection course. This is the toughest physical and mental course you could possibly imagine.
00:13:35:02 - 00:14:00:22
Dr Paul
Other research shows that hardiness predicts who passes police special operations. It predicts career longevity and high pressure environments such as the police, military, first responders. It's been called the great, the best attribute of 25 of the world's greatest leaders. But we also know people higher in hardiness have got better physical health. They've got better overlap, overall well-being.
00:14:01:04 - 00:14:36:00
Dr Paul
Their immune systems respond better to stress, which is critical. Right? They also recover quicker from serious illness. And even kids who are higher in hardiness are much more likely to go to university than their low hardy peers, independent of their socioeconomic status. And just to put the icing on the cake, there was a recent research study, a systematic review of a looked at 116 studies in the workplace around cognitive hardiness.
00:14:36:00 - 00:15:01:20
Dr Paul
They called it cognitive. A lot of people call it psychological symptom. And they found a huge amount of benefits to hardiness. Right. I mean, it would take me ages to read them out, but it was across performance outcomes, work behaviours, work attitudes and also employee health and well-being. So hardiness is good for the individual, it's good for performance and it's good for the organisation.
00:15:01:22 - 00:15:24:11
Dr Paul
And there's a big difference. There's an overlap between hardiness and resilience. But resilience doesn't have a very clear definition in the literature. There's a lot of to be it is resilience a state, is it a trait, is it a process? Is it something you're born with? Is it something you do? Is it something you have? But most people kind of agree that resilience is an outcome.
00:15:24:11 - 00:15:30:21
Dr Paul
It's about bouncing back. Just tell you how to get there. Hardiness tells you how to get there.
00:15:30:23 - 00:15:31:16
Filly
And.
00:15:31:18 - 00:15:57:23
Dr Paul
You can improve your hardiness. And that's what I showed in my PhD. We went in to to high pressure environments, workplace environments did some training on them. They improved their hardiness, all three elements of hardiness. They also improved their resilience. They improved their mental well-being. They improved how they their perceptions of stress. They improve their gratitude. And they even improved some aspects of cognitive function as well.
00:15:58:01 - 00:16:02:22
Filly
Amazing. What are the three three characteristics?
00:16:03:00 - 00:16:26:00
Dr Paul
So the three typical is I've added a fourth one actually in my book. So the first is a control orientation not in the not in any particular order. So control orientation is that belief that I either controller heavily influenced my environment and my destiny. It's what we in psychology we call an internal locus of control.
00:16:26:02 - 00:16:26:16
Filly
And.
00:16:26:18 - 00:16:54:02
Dr Paul
An external locus of control is the belief that your environment, your destiny, is heavily influenced by other people. And you will hear these people say, this stuff always happens to me. They messed my life up. You know, these sorts of things. This messed up my life. Right? But the other aspect of control is that when in challenge or stress, you tend to focus your energy on the stuff that you can control and don't invest it in the stuff you can't control.
00:16:54:02 - 00:16:58:23
Dr Paul
And a lot of low, hearty people are investing so much of their energy in shit they can't control.
00:16:59:00 - 00:16:59:19
Filly
Yeah.
00:16:59:21 - 00:17:25:15
Dr Paul
I mean we can unpack this. Obviously the second one is commitment orientation. This is about being fully engaged in your life and in life's activities and you will know these people because they just they bring energy right. They're just they're they're those energising people who are just into stuff. They're curious. And then the other end of the scale is what I call the energy vampires.
00:17:25:15 - 00:17:37:01
Dr Paul
Right. And in between those are the people who are just a bit, they're a bit grey. Right? But this isn't just about a workplace. It's about your your social life. It's about your hobbies.
00:17:37:06 - 00:17:38:03
Filly
00:17:38:05 - 00:17:53:22
Dr Paul
And, yeah. And I'm increasingly concerned about our society because there's an increasing amount of people who spend an increasing amount of their spare time within the confines of four walls with their heads buried in a goddamn screen.
00:17:54:00 - 00:17:54:09
Filly
Yeah.
00:17:54:09 - 00:18:14:22
Dr Paul
And these are what I call passive consumers of life. They're not active participants. The people who are active participants, they have hobbies and interests. But the Japanese call ikigai, right? For a little reason. To live. So that's that that's commitment. And by the way, they're also committed to their well-being. And they find that there is a sense of meaning and purpose in life.
00:18:14:22 - 00:18:40:20
Dr Paul
And you can see how those all connect. And then this third one is challenge orientation. This is about how you respond to change. And also to, potential stress or adversity. So hi. Hearty people. They view change as an opportunity for them to learn and develop and so to get new skills, low hardy people view change as a threat and they tend to shy away from it.
00:18:41:00 - 00:19:12:23
Dr Paul
They don't like change. Hi Hardy, people also view adversity, as an opportunity to test themselves. And and they lean in to adversity, whereas low hardy people tend to run away from adversity, bury their head in the sand, hide those sorts of things. So and those three orientations tend to interact with each other. And, and the fourth one that I've added, which I think is hugely important, is a connection orientation because the human brain is a social organ.
00:19:13:01 - 00:19:29:02
Dr Paul
And and it's hugely important, especially in times of stress, that we connect to other people, that we lean in to other people, that we share our issues, that we support each other. So for me, that's a really critical fourth piece.
00:19:29:04 - 00:19:29:21
Filly
00:19:29:23 - 00:19:31:18
Chris
I love it, I love it. So much.
00:19:31:19 - 00:19:37:06
Filly
So control commitment challenge, connection. Yeah. What are you going to say something.
00:19:37:11 - 00:20:01:17
Chris
Yeah I just really love it. That the first one you talked about the control orientation. With our clients that we think about like with their, their choices, their their thoughts, their feelings, their words, the actions, all this sort of stuff. And that's a really new and novel and, risky and scary concept for, for some people.
00:20:01:19 - 00:20:27:07
Chris
With that, that, as you say, control orientation because now they're in the driver's seat that they're, they're the ones choosing, the, the, the the choices. Right. And then and then I feel like maybe the, the challenge orientation, comes into it here as well, where some of the I've noticed some people will go, oh, well, if I'm choosing well, I'm to blame.
00:20:27:07 - 00:20:47:00
Chris
I'm wrong, I'm a mistake, I'm stuffing up. I'm not good enough because they take over responsibility now. And I've noticed there's a, there's, that that shows up a lot with, with people that we talk to, we see very interesting.
00:20:47:01 - 00:21:14:18
Dr Paul
And when we get to control, there's, there's really three things to focus on. Number one, your attitude we all get to, we all get to choose our attitude. Big Viktor Frankl calls this the last of human freedoms. I see you're nodding. Phil, you're probably familiar with Viktor Frankl, right? You know, everybody mind can take to be everything but one thing, your ability to choose your own attitude, to choose your own way.
00:21:14:20 - 00:21:45:17
Dr Paul
The Stoics talked a lot about that as well. There's so much of control, so controlling how you choose to respond to your circumstances is hugely important. The second one, and this is increasingly important today is your attention choosing. Were this in Japanese psychology, they just get this beautiful term. They say the most important thing that you have in your control is what they call the flashlight of your attention.
00:21:45:19 - 00:22:10:23
Dr Paul
Right. And as a neuroscientist, I love that because what ever you pay attention to, your brain commits sales to it. So the issue for a lot of people is that the flashlight of their attention is shone in their own heads for long periods of the day with they're in their heads struggling with their thoughts, struggling with their emotions.
00:22:11:03 - 00:22:27:10
Dr Paul
They're trying to change the past. They're trying to control or predict the future. They're trying to change other people's behaviour. They're trying to make the universe bend around them. And I will say to these people, it's the universe. It's not your universe.
00:22:27:12 - 00:22:28:10
Filly
00:22:28:12 - 00:22:57:08
Dr Paul
But how much of our energy and attention are we wasting on stuff that we can't control? And then the third thing is your actions. We get to choose our actions. We get to particularly when we're stressed. We get to choose when we come home, you get to choose whether you react to a stressful day by listening to that little voice in your head that as soon as you walk in, the door goes, you've had a hard day, you need a drink, right?
00:22:57:10 - 00:23:16:21
Dr Paul
Or you choose to listen to the other voice that says you need to go out and exercise, because that is actually going to, number one, dissipate the stress that you're feeling. Number two, it's going to renew your energy. And third, it's going to improve your physical and your mental health. Right. We also get to choose what we put in our mouth on a daily basis.
00:23:16:23 - 00:23:24:16
Dr Paul
And research that just came out this morning show that Australia is one of the worst consumers in the world of ultra processed foods.
00:23:24:18 - 00:23:29:00
Filly
Crazy. This stuff continues to change. It.
00:23:29:00 - 00:23:50:09
Dr Paul
Contains needs to change. We need to get rid of this health star system that's on foods. It's just. And, we need to just be eating foods that have been alive. I call it a low here, high diet here. She stands for human interference. If you if you're looking at that piece of food. I don't care what a Krispy Kreme doughnut are, a protein bar or a health bar.
00:23:50:14 - 00:23:57:12
Dr Paul
If you haven't seen it running around on four legs, it's not real food. It's ultra processed.
00:23:57:13 - 00:23:58:19
Filly
All right.
00:23:58:21 - 00:24:25:10
Dr Paul
And that's simple. And we at our highest, we use the 8020 rule. 80% of the stuff that goes in your gob on a daily basis should have been alive recently and minimally interfered with by humans. And the other 20% should treat food. And and the other big behavioural things we get to to control is basically our sleep hygiene and and lots of people, particularly when they're stressed, they got shit hard sleep hygiene, you know, you think of that and I've done it to you in the past.
00:24:25:10 - 00:24:42:13
Dr Paul
We've all done it. You come home, you've had a stressful day. It's a little wine. A clock goes off in your head and you know, you drink. I think I'll have a glass of wine and. And it turns into two or 3 or 4, and then you're sitting watching TV. You're up late. You've just destroyed all of your melatonin.
00:24:42:15 - 00:25:02:17
Dr Paul
You know, you're cognitively stimulated, and then you struggle to get to sleep, and then you're waking up multiple times during the night because of the alcohol. And then you get up and you're tired. So you stick coffee down your neck. You're you're late because you press snooze three times. So you're eating a very quick, ultra processed food breakfast.
00:25:02:19 - 00:25:25:21
Dr Paul
Then you're getting into work. And because you've had poor sleep, ghrelin is higher, which makes you hungry all day, and B and cortisol is higher the entire next day, which make you crave sugary and fatty and salty food, which is available everywhere. And at the same time, leptin is reduced in the brain and leptin drives two things cessation of eating and voluntary physical activity.
00:25:25:23 - 00:25:47:17
Dr Paul
So after a poor night's sleep, you are much more likely to sit on your lay long and you're a lot less likely to exercise, you're more likely to overeat, and because you're less likely to exercise, you're less able to handle the stress of the day's events. So you go home stressed and you soothe your stress with the food or alcohol, which both interfere with your sleep that night.
00:25:47:17 - 00:25:49:20
Dr Paul
And then it's Groundhog Day.
00:25:49:22 - 00:25:52:10
Filly
It's just cycle.
00:25:52:12 - 00:25:55:22
Dr Paul
And I've just explained half the listener's life right now.
00:25:56:00 - 00:25:57:13
Chris
Yeah 100%. Totally.
00:25:57:13 - 00:26:01:01
Dr Paul
And I'm not saying it's easy like it's, it's not easy.
00:26:01:01 - 00:26:02:11
Filly
It's hard.
00:26:02:13 - 00:26:15:23
Dr Paul
It's hard to actually go no I'm not going to have a glass of wine. I'm going to exercise. It's hard to eat. Well, it's hard to have good sleep hygiene, but I'd say load harder to suffer from burnout.
00:26:16:01 - 00:26:16:20
Filly
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:16:20 - 00:26:19:09
Dr Paul
Choose your heart. It's all hard.
00:26:19:11 - 00:26:26:14
Filly
Yeah. Yeah. Life is suffering. The move towards the things that are going to help you get what you want or more suffering.
00:26:26:14 - 00:26:30:01
Dr Paul
Yeah that's right. Exactly.
00:26:30:03 - 00:26:59:08
Filly
Okay. Awesome. So I've had a couple of questions as you were chatting. So people who are more prone to, experience stress and that just might be life stress. It also might be a big event. Maybe like a big tea experience. Yeah. Does the research show that if that person has already cultivated hardiness, that they're more likely to come through on the other end, maybe even stronger hundred percent?
00:26:59:08 - 00:27:30:07
Dr Paul
Yeah. So hardiness actually predicts in combat veterans who gets PTSD and who doesn't, who get suicided. Who doesn't. Right. Yeah. Right. So, so so having those skills and it predicts career longevity in those high pressure environments. So, so you're you're better able to cope with those things. But but you know, even if you have been burnt out or you are currently stressed, you can cultivate your hardiness.
00:27:30:07 - 00:27:51:11
Dr Paul
That that's the key thing is that it it's never too late. And we know you mentioned a few things. You mentioned big T trauma but also adverse childhood experiences. We know that, you know, if you were brought up in a in a pretty tough environment, you were physically, mentally, psychologically abused. We know that you're much more likely to have an enlarged amygdala.
00:27:51:12 - 00:28:17:09
Dr Paul
You know, it's likely that your frontal lobes didn't develop as well as they possibly could have, and it's likely that you then respond to stress in a hypervigilant emotional manner. Right. But and so it makes life harder. It does when whenever there's stress in there, particularly certain triggers will set people off right. But we know that there's a huge amount of neuroplasticity in the brain.
00:28:17:15 - 00:28:17:22
Filly
00:28:18:01 - 00:28:42:05
Dr Paul
That, that, that we know that you can actually remodel your amygdala over time with a combination of all of those, those hardiness skills that I talked about, the, the psychological ones. But this is where I bring in the physiological. So this is that, that, that, this, this, that the physiological part of the psycho physiologist in me and half the book is dedicated to that.
00:28:42:08 - 00:29:06:13
Dr Paul
You know, the stuff that I talked about, the exercise provides all of the conditions necessary for neuroplasticity. Exercise increases all the growth factors in the brain, particularly BD, and half that helps you to regrow in your brain cells. You could actually grow new brains, not regrow. So grow new brain cells, create new connections. Bdnf is critical for that.
00:29:06:14 - 00:29:45:00
Dr Paul
A good diet, particularly high in omega three fatty acids, supports the production of BDF. Right? We know that eating lots of plant polyphenols really good for for your body and then your brain function and all those, those, those neurotransmitters, rely on your food. Right. And also, you know, I talked about the sympathetic nervous system switching over into recovery out of your ship aesthetic into your parasympathetic by using breathwork, little exercise snacks, cold exposure, sauna, this sort of stuff, you know, good sleep hygiene.
00:29:45:02 - 00:29:47:14
Dr Paul
And it's hugely important for neuroplasticity.
00:29:47:19 - 00:29:48:01
Filly
Yeah.
00:29:48:01 - 00:30:12:20
Dr Paul
So there's a lot of spending time in nature and there's a lot of things that people can do that actually then support their brain. So that let me just be clear that I be clear for the listeners. Your brain controls everything that your body does, but it is completely dependent on the health of the body for it to function well.
00:30:12:22 - 00:30:15:08
Dr Paul
Right. That's the two way interaction.
00:30:15:13 - 00:30:15:23
Filly
Yeah.
00:30:16:00 - 00:30:18:21
Dr Paul
That is really important for people to understand.
00:30:18:23 - 00:30:36:21
Filly
And metaphor. I don't know if it's a metaphor, but an image I have in my brain when I think about highly processed foods is and I sometimes say this to my kids, it's like you're just eating plastic. Yeah. So I would imagine if you're putting plastic into your body and like if we're talking about the brain, the brain has no way to change.
00:30:36:21 - 00:30:39:03
Filly
Like it's almost like it's like.
00:30:39:05 - 00:30:41:14
Dr Paul
Yeah, yeah. It becomes because locked.
00:30:41:18 - 00:30:43:03
Filly
It's like, I mean.
00:30:43:08 - 00:31:13:18
Dr Paul
What we know now about these ultra processed foods is all the, the, the chemicals that are in them, the, the emulsifiers, the preservatives, the flavour enhancers, they disrupt your gut microbiome. And I think most listeners have heard about the gut brain axis. It's actually the gut brain microbiome axis that's critical. And and I said to my kids, you know, from the young, you know, you don't just feed your cells, you feed your gut microbes.
00:31:13:21 - 00:31:38:19
Dr Paul
And it created that analogy for kids is about Star Wars, you know, get the movie Star Wars. And it's like there's good and evil in everything. And and look, it's okay to have a little bit of stuff. You need a little bit of balanced. But sugar and processed carbohydrates and processed foods feeds the dark side. And all of the healthy foods that have been alive that feeds the light side.
00:31:38:21 - 00:31:39:05
Filly
00:31:39:06 - 00:31:41:08
Dr Paul
So it's who do you want to win.
00:31:41:10 - 00:31:42:07
Filly
Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:42:07 - 00:31:46:13
Chris
That's awesome. Little little Obi-Wan going going around in the gut.
00:31:46:15 - 00:31:47:22
Filly
Yeah. This little.
00:31:47:22 - 00:31:49:05
Chris
Anakin's.
00:31:49:07 - 00:31:51:08
Dr Paul
Last Darth Vader's smaller Obi-Wan.
00:31:51:08 - 00:31:52:18
Chris
That's it. That's it.
00:31:52:20 - 00:32:13:00
Filly
This is if you quite a few years ago, about one of our children started developing tinea. And it's like, that's because when you put a lollipop in your mouth, you're feeding the I called it, well, it's mean, it's fungi. But are you feeding the mushrooms? And they're showing up on your skin. And so then every time they're like, oh, do I want to feed this.
00:32:13:02 - 00:32:14:06
Dr Paul
Yeah, absolutely.
00:32:14:06 - 00:32:40:10
Filly
And it's a smart right. They are. So that well around that like are we're talking about children because I mean as parents and I know that there'll be lots of parents listening, like a, some people just born with the hardiness, characteristics or it's cultivated over time.
00:32:40:12 - 00:33:02:11
Dr Paul
Like, there is definitely a genetic component to hardiness and resilience, right. But more of it is cultivated. And I tell you how you cultivate hardiness, the single best way to cultivate hardiness. And this is really critical for every parent to understand your kids can and have to do hard things.
00:33:02:13 - 00:33:03:08
Filly
00:33:03:09 - 00:33:32:03
Dr Paul
That's it. Nobody develops hardiness by not doing hard things. By doing hard things you develop your your your challenge muscle. Right. So you then start to view things as a challenge. So there's this super interesting literature around challenge and threat responses. So so and so say me and Chris are are presented with the same potentially stressful situation. We very quickly make an appraisal which is called stress appraisal.
00:33:32:05 - 00:33:59:06
Dr Paul
Is this a challenge or is this a threat? If Chris's brain goes to challenge and mine goes to threat or psychology is very, very different. So Chris increases brain dopamine is released. That is the chemical of motivation and goal directed behaviour. So it's what we call approach in psychology. Chris leans in. He engages with the situation. The threat response tells me to shut down, to avoid, to procrastinate, to run away, to bury my head in the sand.
00:33:59:11 - 00:33:59:19
Filly
00:33:59:19 - 00:34:35:01
Dr Paul
But the physiology is very, very different. The challenge response and this is professor Mark theory, Adrian Haas and others have shown very, very clearly that challenge response activates the fight part of the fight or flight nervous system. Right. It's about motivation engagement, move in. But physiologically the cardiovascular system in Chris opens up all his blood vessels dilate blood flow increases oxygen increases breathing rate, increases blood flow and oxygen to his brain, increases blood sugar, is dumped into his system.
00:34:35:01 - 00:35:02:19
Dr Paul
His body is primed to act right. Whereas with me in the threat response, the HPA axis is activated over your sympathetic nervous system. That's, involving the hormone cortisol. And that puts me into lockdown mode. Cardiovascolari that threat response. Basically, my blood vessels constrict so there's less blood flow, there's less oxygen to the brain, and my body is not prepared to act.
00:35:02:19 - 00:35:06:07
Dr Paul
It's about disengagement is kind of the freeze response.
00:35:06:07 - 00:35:07:19
Filly
Right.
00:35:07:21 - 00:35:35:13
Dr Paul
Now the chemicals I said mine is cortisol is the dominant stress hormone. With Chris it's adrenaline and noradrenaline. If you've got any Americans listening that's nor epinephrine and epinephrine nor epinephrine. Now the half life of those chemicals is one to 1.5 minutes. And it takes about four half lives before chemicals back to normal levels. So within ten minutes of this stressor Chris his body is back to homeostasis.
00:35:35:14 - 00:35:36:21
Filly
00:35:36:22 - 00:35:45:08
Dr Paul
Cortisol has a half life of way longer more. That means that five hours later I'm still having a stress response.
00:35:45:08 - 00:35:46:15
Filly
Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:46:15 - 00:35:59:20
Dr Paul
Cortisol is still coursing through my blood vessels. It's attacking my organs. And for your patients who've been burnt out, it's cortisol. Hyper cortisol. Emir high carries over a long period of time destroys your body.
00:35:59:22 - 00:36:02:01
Filly
Right. Most of them have adrenal fatigue.
00:36:02:03 - 00:36:09:17
Dr Paul
It just. Yeah. Yeah. And that's because those are great. So what happens with those adrenals. First they hypertrophy.
00:36:09:19 - 00:36:10:05
Filly
They grow.
00:36:10:06 - 00:36:33:15
Dr Paul
Bigger. Just like if you were to train your muscles lots in the gym they grow bigger because of the environmental impact. The same thing happens in our bodies. Right. And and that's an adaptive response to being born in a are living in a dangerous environment. But when it's not dangerous when it's just the stress of work or relationships or stuff, this is a maladaptive response, right?
00:36:33:15 - 00:37:06:03
Dr Paul
I have an enlarged amygdala. I'm not developing hypervigilance to stress and threat. I'm scanning the environment subconsciously for bad shit, and when I find it, I linger on it longer than people with the normal amygdala and the chronic stress that hyper cortisol is destroying my frontal lobes. That means I'm less able to plan for the future, make good decisions, control my emotions, and use my willpower around exercise on all those other sorts of things around the behaviours that we talked about.
00:37:06:05 - 00:37:28:00
Dr Paul
So basically, we get into this vortex that just pulls us down. Then I start to socially isolate myself and that's bad shit in and of itself. Depression comes in, anxiety comes in, and eventually it's Barnhardt and anhedonia, the inability to feel pleasure because your neurotransmitter systems have been burnt out. Yeah.
00:37:28:05 - 00:37:30:16
Filly
Shut down man. That's the.
00:37:30:16 - 00:37:31:16
Dr Paul
Bad shit.
00:37:31:19 - 00:37:32:17
Filly
Right? Yeah.
00:37:32:17 - 00:37:39:03
Dr Paul
We can't do stuff about it. Right? That's the key thing. The best thing is get on the prevention side.
00:37:39:05 - 00:37:39:23
Filly
Yeah.
00:37:40:00 - 00:37:47:00
Dr Paul
But if you've already tipped over, then it's it's about the cure side of things.
00:37:47:02 - 00:38:13:20
Filly
So as you were talking I'm just going to look at Chris's notes. When I think as a kid, because I felt like I started going into burnout as a child, I reckon, like, oh, definitely. As a teenager. But I reckon the one thing I had cultivated was commitment, probably also conditioning. So my parents were hard working in there like, you know, develop yourself and do the things, but I actually don't.
00:38:13:22 - 00:38:34:01
Filly
I was very victim. Challenges was scary. Connection with self wasn't there. And I don't really like I think that it was there in my environment. But as a little kid, I feel like I always felt like I was left out. And so I can see how that then led to chronic health issues and body burnout as an adult.
00:38:34:03 - 00:38:49:20
Filly
And I can also say that my ability of being able to heal and coming out on the other side is all for those things, as well as the physical stuff. Yeah. So you've just summed out my summed up main in a nutshell.
00:38:49:22 - 00:39:17:02
Dr Paul
And you know that, I mean, Adverse childhood is really interesting. I interviewed Professor John Reid. Right. And who is I think he's one of the best researchers in mental health. And, and, and his research shows that mental health workers, only about 25% of them ever ask somebody who comes in with a mental health disorder, only 25% of them ask about adverse childhood experiences.
00:39:17:04 - 00:39:17:12
Filly
Wow.
00:39:17:13 - 00:39:18:22
Dr Paul
That's completely.
00:39:19:00 - 00:39:19:18
Filly
Yeah. That's crazy.
00:39:19:18 - 00:39:21:13
Dr Paul
I don't know if I'm allowed to swear in this podcast.
00:39:21:13 - 00:39:27:10
Chris
But I will put like a little quacking ducks out.
00:39:27:12 - 00:39:51:01
Dr Paul
That that's crazy. Yeah. Because adverse childhood experiences change everything in the brain right. And it doesn't mean that you screw screwed forever. It just means you gotta do the work. As an adult, you got to walk, right? What are my automatic behaviours that used to serve me well as a kid? Because they were protecting me in some way, but are no longer serving me?
00:39:51:01 - 00:39:51:15
Dr Paul
Well, no.
00:39:51:15 - 00:39:53:06
Filly
I right and.
00:39:53:06 - 00:40:16:01
Dr Paul
Then if you want to, to heal, it's about you. It's a neuroplasticity project, right? All of this is a neuroplasticity project, and you need to give your brain the conditions that it needs to heal. Right. And this is why people who are chronically stressed are burnt out. I tell you the single best thing that they can take our hardest daily essential nutrients.
00:40:16:02 - 00:40:41:02
Dr Paul
They have been specifically designed to support the brain and nervous system and have been shown to be at least as effective as medication for depression, anxiety, and other things. Amazing, because when you're stressed, the body prioritised the making of stress hormones because it's all about survival of the species, right? So in stress, this is Professor Bruce James triage theory.
00:40:41:02 - 00:41:01:23
Dr Paul
That's well accepted. When people are chronically stressed, the body robs the brain a nervous system of nutrients to create stress hormones. That's why people's brains become affected. That's why their mood becomes affected. Because they don't have the nutrients gone to the brain. Because it's all being diverted towards an emergency. Right. Does that make sense to you.
00:41:02:01 - 00:41:02:09
Filly
Yeah.
00:41:02:10 - 00:41:31:07
Dr Paul
So those hardest daily essentials are really really important for helping people to rebuild high dose omega three fatty acids good quality ones. Lots of exercise as well. Brass work, cold exposure soreness these sorts of things are all really going to support your recovery. Right. And then it's about doing the psychological work but on the platform of all of the nutrients.
00:41:31:07 - 00:41:41:06
Dr Paul
So you think the psychological work is growing, regrowing all these connections. But we need the fertiliser and all that stuff I talked about is the fertiliser. Does that make sense?
00:41:41:10 - 00:41:47:09
Filly
Yeah. Yeah. When you say nutrients is that omega threes. Is that your base magnesium.
00:41:47:11 - 00:41:58:15
Dr Paul
Yeah. Yeah. So they've got they've got so many different things. They've got ions B vitamins and vitamin D they've got calcium. They it's just it's a massive list and it's in high high doses.
00:41:58:19 - 00:41:59:13
Filly
Right.
00:41:59:15 - 00:42:20:20
Dr Paul
The only thing if people are currently on antidepressant medications, they have to, talk to their doctor, about it because they tend to potentiate, increase the effectiveness of the medication. Yeah. So, but they have a whole heap of doctors that will screen people and, and talk to their doctors around it. The, the best research nutrients, the sources on the planet.
00:42:20:22 - 00:42:53:17
Filly
It's amazing. Oh, I just went on a thought bubble, but then I can't remember what a bubble got. But that bubble thought bubble got this. Oh, no, that's what it was. So, saunas and ice baths. I also think a great. Actually, this is might be a personal question. So I know for some people's systems, if they're coming out of, like, something like chronic fatigue or like shut down where there's been so much stress, what's your thoughts around introducing some of those things?
00:42:53:17 - 00:43:00:06
Filly
Even breathwork sometimes can be too much for someone system. Is it kind of just tight trading that in? Yeah.
00:43:00:06 - 00:43:21:17
Dr Paul
Look, I mean slow controlled breathing will never be too much for someone. That that's what everybody needs when they're stressed is slow, controlled breathing, whether it's box breathing, resonant frequency breathing. You can look these things up. Right. It's some of the more vigorous breath work that that can sometimes be problematic. Now they think about cold and hate.
00:43:21:19 - 00:43:50:09
Dr Paul
They are what we call hermetic stressors, along with exercise right there. And our Macy's is summed up by Friedrich Nietzsche that which does not kill us makes us stronger. Right? So they're they are doses of stress. But they gave me a limit. The stress response genes that they inactivate a whole heap of protective mechanisms. So what I would be saying if somebody is, is burnt out is, is is start really low?
00:43:50:11 - 00:44:10:08
Dr Paul
Maybe start with just a 15 second cold char. Right. You just want that little till slight cold shock response. They certainly don't want to be spending five minutes in an ice baths. Right. So just dip your toe in the water a little bit. You will get some of those benefits. You can have a hot bath rather than a sauna.
00:44:10:10 - 00:44:21:22
Dr Paul
Right. And, but, but actually that hot bath it does is doing a lot of good things. It can be relaxing as well. So it's just it's really about being your own scientist.
00:44:22:04 - 00:44:22:12
Filly
00:44:22:13 - 00:44:31:22
Dr Paul
Is running little experiments because anybody who tells you that there's a one size fits all or that everybody who's been stressed should not do this.
00:44:31:22 - 00:44:34:08
Filly
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right.
00:44:34:08 - 00:44:56:03
Dr Paul
Yeah, yeah. I'm a big fan of being your own scientist. Run a little experiment, see what happens. But try to control as many other factors, confounding factors as possible. Be a proper scientist. Right. So, do your first ice baths on the steam day that you go into the gym and change your diet and all of those things.
00:44:56:03 - 00:45:00:18
Dr Paul
Right. You've just got to try and tweak one variable and see what see what the impact is.
00:45:00:20 - 00:45:21:03
Filly
Yeah, it was a personal question because I got a we got a sauna at our house, earlier this year. So I'm like, yeah, sauna. Woo. Previous to that wasn't a regular sauna. It's on her. And so I was probably doing one every second day and it was okay. Although I way overdid it it initially for too long and then not hydrating.
00:45:21:03 - 00:45:30:10
Filly
But then I noticed my hormones and my cycle started getting shorter and really saw like PMC boobs and stuff like that. So I'm like, oh, this is not.
00:45:30:12 - 00:45:31:14
Dr Paul
I've gone through on and.
00:45:31:15 - 00:45:49:08
Filly
I've gone to that. And so yeah, I've experimented with at the moment I'm just doing one awake and making sure I drink big later of coconut water at the moment that's that's working great. And I'll probably just next start or maybe next month or the month after I try to awake with coconut.
00:45:49:08 - 00:46:08:21
Dr Paul
That's right. It's just little progressive overload. That's the thing. You've got to start where you're at, right. And and then you just will titrate a little bit of progressive overload next week, a little bit more or two weeks or three weeks later. Right. Just like you wouldn't go into the gym having never been in there and trying to deadlift 200 kilos.
00:46:08:21 - 00:46:13:09
Dr Paul
Yeah. You know, you're going to start late and then you just going to build up bit by bit.
00:46:13:15 - 00:46:42:03
Filly
Yeah, yeah. And what about weight stress as well. So because I think you mentioned it earlier, stress can work to your advantage. But for someone who's cultivating, say, the hardiness, characteristics and they're wanting to come back into the world and, I don't know, stress themselves a bit like in a, in a healthy way. So they're back living life and trying new things.
00:46:42:03 - 00:46:43:21
Filly
What would you suggest to that.
00:46:43:23 - 00:47:22:04
Dr Paul
Yeah. So so again, it's it's it's a case of start where I think the commitment and the control stuff, you can knock yourself out with that and the connection. It's the challenge bit that, that we, we need to walk carefully with. And and so we know, Adrian has his research and know there's research that will show that, you know, if people had, especially if they've had adverse childhood experiences or burnout, that their, their ability to get into challenge mode rather than threat mode becomes compromised.
00:47:22:05 - 00:47:42:06
Dr Paul
Right? So they probably have to pull back the size of their challenge. And it may be that I avoid challenges in a certain area that I'd become burnt. Our had some childhood experiences in, but I might be fine in other things. I might be fine with exercise. I might be fine with a cold challenger, those sorts of things.
00:47:42:06 - 00:48:02:01
Dr Paul
So it is those little experiments. But it's again, it's you wouldn't do the same analogy like the gym, you know, you've got it. You got to start where you're at and just get a little bit outside of your comfort zone. Just make sure that there wasn't too much of a reaction. And then a little bit of progressive overload.
00:48:02:07 - 00:48:02:15
Filly
00:48:02:15 - 00:48:19:20
Dr Paul
Around those things. But it's really about that psychology going in of this is a challenge. Yeah. But if you find yourself going into shut down mode to social disassociation, those sorts of things, then you got to you're going to pull out of it. You got to put too much.
00:48:19:20 - 00:48:21:17
Filly
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:48:21:19 - 00:48:29:07
Dr Paul
And for certain people, it might just be one area of their life where it's too much. On other areas, they'll be completely fine. And.
00:48:29:09 - 00:48:30:02
Filly
Yeah, this.
00:48:30:02 - 00:48:33:23
Dr Paul
Is what the nuance comes in and the self-experimentation comes in.
00:48:34:01 - 00:48:42:00
Filly
Yeah. Yeah, we've both just. Well, it was last week. We auditioned for a musical performance, which we've never done before, and we both got it.
00:48:42:00 - 00:48:45:16
Chris
Challenge. Challenge was very high. I just got the lead role.
00:48:45:16 - 00:48:47:08
Filly
So definitely challenging right now.
00:48:47:09 - 00:48:52:01
Chris
Speaking in a Scottish accent. So I need to do a little bit more practice with my Scottish.
00:48:52:03 - 00:48:53:02
Filly
Wow, that's.
00:48:53:02 - 00:48:54:09
Dr Paul
Fantastic.
00:48:54:10 - 00:48:59:15
Chris
After it's Sunshine on Leith, well, a little, segue there so.
00:48:59:17 - 00:49:00:22
Filly
That it is cool and.
00:49:00:23 - 00:49:19:18
Dr Paul
But this is the sort of thing that people need to do, right? Is just get comfortable with being uncomfortable. But this starts in childhood, right? This is the message I got to give to parents, right? There are so many parents out there who are well intentioned and I'm a parent. I get it. You want you don't like to see your kids struggle.
00:49:19:18 - 00:49:28:07
Dr Paul
You want to give your kid advantages, you want to do that. But the worst thing that people can do is try to bulldoze a path for their kids.
00:49:28:10 - 00:49:29:07
Filly
Yeah.
00:49:29:09 - 00:49:32:18
Dr Paul
You're just gonna mess them up in the long run right.
00:49:32:19 - 00:49:33:03
Filly
00:49:33:05 - 00:49:54:03
Dr Paul
Your kids have to do hard things. They have to become uncomfortable. They you know they've got to feel but you need to be around to pick them up and, and help them to learn the lessons and to motivate them to get back in, not to come and save them, not to try and get help them bring up in a sterilised environment because you're not gonna build anything.
00:49:54:05 - 00:50:21:08
Dr Paul
It's like a psychological stress operates like physical stress and exercise. Exercise is only good for you because it's a stressor and that stress causes adaptation. The adaptation happens in the recovery, right? So you never exercise your muscles. You never going to be strong. It's it's like the challenge muscle if you don't exercise your challenge muscle, you're never going to be resilient or hardy, right?
00:50:21:10 - 00:50:40:05
Dr Paul
Unless you're a genetic freak. And this is the thing we we have to do hard things. I mean, everybody who's listening to this, if I ask them, what is the biggest achievement in your life, this thing that you're most proud of, I guarantee you involve stress and being out of your comfort zone.
00:50:40:07 - 00:50:40:16
Filly
Yeah.
00:50:40:16 - 00:50:41:11
Chris
Yeah, I agree with.
00:50:41:11 - 00:50:44:02
Dr Paul
That is where we grow. That is where we grow.
00:50:44:04 - 00:50:56:17
Chris
I was just reading some of our notes. Filly was saying, you and your wife are developing a year ten elective. Is that, is that something you you can talk about? Is that on the cards? Yeah, I'd love to know.
00:50:56:17 - 00:51:20:19
Dr Paul
Yeah, it is. It is happening. So is with Warrnambool College. So. So I did, a heartiness presentation, to school principals in, in lots of schools. Want to be in did it for the staff at Warrnambool College. And then the PE teacher, who's now the assistant vice principal, approached me and said, hey, what do you think about developing a hardiness curriculum a year ten elective?
00:51:20:19 - 00:51:25:20
Dr Paul
I o nearly paid my.
00:51:25:22 - 00:51:26:14
Filly
I told my.
00:51:26:14 - 00:51:49:16
Dr Paul
Wife, my wife's a counsellor. Who who who loves working with adolescents. And she got so excited as well. So, we're working with golf. Big shout out to Colt if he's listening and aligning it with the Victorian curriculum. And, and it's going to be a lot of it's going to be experiential around both psychological and physiological hardiness.
00:51:49:18 - 00:52:17:09
Dr Paul
You know, the kids, we're going to be exploring their values, who they want to be, meaning and purpose in life. We're going to be they're going to be setting their own challenges, you know, meeting them where they're at, physical and psychological challenges. You know, that connection orientation, lots of stuff around that. And control orientation, focusing on what you can control, understanding the stuff you can control, the stuff that you can't.
00:52:17:11 - 00:52:37:22
Dr Paul
And we're going to be evaluating them around their mental well-being, their physical well-being, their physical health, their performance, and their perceptions of stress. And then we'll re-evaluate at the end of the year because we want to get evidence. Right. Yeah, I know this works in in an adults because I've done the research on adults. Yeah. And I'm pretty damn sure it's going to work in kids.
00:52:38:00 - 00:52:38:16
Filly
So cool.
00:52:38:17 - 00:52:50:04
Dr Paul
And it was it was completely oversubscribed. So we have to run it twice in oh two semesters. So and every parent I talk to, it's like, when are you going to bring that to our school? Yes, exactly.
00:52:50:08 - 00:52:51:11
Chris
And that's what I'm thinking.
00:52:51:13 - 00:52:56:15
Filly
Like, oh, this is in year seven. So hopefully in three years time it's in Tasmania. Yeah.
00:52:56:17 - 00:53:16:16
Dr Paul
And the year ten is perfect for it because it then sets them up and gives them the life skills for year 11 and year 12. Absolutely. And and and helps them to go into that was this is a challenge for me. This is about testing and developing myself. So yeah we are we're we're very excited about running this.
00:53:16:16 - 00:53:18:18
Dr Paul
So so that should be cool.
00:53:18:20 - 00:53:22:08
Chris
How can people get your book pull.
00:53:22:10 - 00:53:38:07
Dr Paul
Look, if they live in Australia, they can buy it off my website and they'll get a signed copy if they want. Or they can just buy it off Amazon or Book topia. But if it's overseas, you got to buy it off Amazon or something like that, because it just costs far too much money to send it, to be honest.
00:53:38:09 - 00:53:44:18
Filly
Yeah, cool. I'll make you up so good. I'll make sure all those links and a link to your website is in the show notes.
00:53:44:20 - 00:53:48:13
Chris
And very cool. You've got it. You've got to go. But but I just wanted.
00:53:48:18 - 00:53:50:23
Filly
It to be on TV. Aren't you?
00:53:51:00 - 00:53:56:07
Dr Paul
Yes. I'm going to be on, sunrise chat. Amazing seven, I think.
00:53:56:08 - 00:54:14:17
Chris
Amazing. I, I just I just wanted to ask you one question. Yeah. As a as passionate as you are about hardiness, if you had one wish. One wish that you could change the world somehow, you just like. You know what? This is what I want. What would you wish for?
00:54:14:19 - 00:54:17:18
Filly
Oh, big increase.
00:54:17:19 - 00:54:26:07
Dr Paul
That is massive. So if I was tsar of the universe, you only give me one wish.
00:54:26:07 - 00:54:30:15
Chris
Yeah, I actually wrote three on my book. But. But you're only allowed one now because you're running out of time.
00:54:30:17 - 00:54:47:06
Dr Paul
I've. I've only allowed if I'm only allowed one. I'm passionate about the kids. Yeah. My wish would be we stop talking to kids about mental health labels and we only talk to them about skills.
00:54:47:08 - 00:54:49:19
Filly
Oh, amazing.
00:54:49:21 - 00:55:14:08
Dr Paul
Because the research is now showing the more you talk to kids about their emotions, the more you ask them about their emotions, the more you make them aware of pathologies. And this is what anxiety looks like. This is what depression looks like. The more likely they are to identify with it because they're so suggestible and young kids should not know about friggin mental health conditions we did when we were kids.
00:55:14:09 - 00:55:20:02
Dr Paul
They should not know about this. Because, and we need to teach them life skills.
00:55:20:04 - 00:55:24:15
Filly
Amazing. Wow. Awesome. All right.
00:55:24:17 - 00:55:27:18
Chris
Here's to making that wish. Come true. That's that's awesome.
00:55:27:20 - 00:55:34:02
Dr Paul
Oh. And by the way, you guys, if anybody is interested, I also have a podcast on hardiness, which it's called the Hardiness podcast.
00:55:34:06 - 00:55:38:06
Filly
Yeah, it's a good podcast. Listen to one this morning in the shower.
00:55:38:08 - 00:55:41:11
Chris
Awesome. Excellent. All right. Well, thank you very much for coming on.
00:55:41:12 - 00:55:44:17
Dr Paul
Sorry. Sorry, family. I hope you turned out to cold for 10s.
00:55:44:21 - 00:55:49:12
Filly
No, I didn't get to that far in the podcast. I had a sauna.
00:55:49:14 - 00:55:51:06
Dr Paul
The next time.
00:55:51:08 - 00:55:57:01
Chris
All right, all right. Well, thank you very much. Doctor Patel, everybody. And, thanks for coming on.
00:55:57:01 - 00:55:58:03
Filly
Thank you.
00:55:58:07 - 00:55:59:06
Dr Paul
Thanks for having me, guys.
00:55:59:11 - 00:56:06:20
Filly
Catch you later. See ya. Bye. Thanks. Cheers. Bye.
00:56:06:22 - 00:56:17:00
Filly
Thank you so much for listening. We so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love by sharing this episode.
00:56:17:02 - 00:56:41:08
Chris
You can also write your own state of burnout and the root cause contributors by taking our Ending Body Burnout assessment on our website. And if you're interested in learning about our group or one on one ending body burnout programs, shoot us a DM via Instagram or Facebook. Have the best day ever.
00:56:41:10 - 00:56:51:13
Chris
For.
00:56:51:15 - 00:56:51:20
Chris
Us.
