00:00:03:07 - 00:00:16:23
Chris
Hello and welcome to the ending Buddy Burnout show. We are your host, Chris and Filly, co-founders of a multi winning functional medicine practice serving busy people with energy, mood and gut issues.
00:00:17:00 - 00:00:24:21
Filly
Well, business, addictive doing, people pleasing and perfectionism might be the norm. It's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
00:00:25:00 - 00:00:38:04
Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic root root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplements hoping something might stick.
00:00:38:05 - 00:00:46:07
Filly
So get ready to heal your body. Get your spark back deeply, connect with yourself, and step into the life of your dreams.
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Chris
Let's dive in.
00:00:55:19 - 00:01:25:18
Filly
Hello everybody! Welcome to the podcast. I'm really excited to share our next guest with you. Who is Doctor Shah Romi Umar Laguna. Now Doctor Shami is a GP who is really passionate about advocating for mental health. And I met Doctor Shami in a business group. We're both part of straight away when I met her, I felt really connected to her and her warm and bubbly nature, and I was also super impressed with her proactive steps to helping patients with mental health issues.
00:01:25:20 - 00:01:53:21
Filly
for her, it's less about just slapping on an antidepressant on a script and instead really understanding the patient and his or her needs and providing lifestyle and skill set support to empower the patient. what I also love about Doctor Sharma's that she's a really big advocate in patient shared care. So she is all about, let's build bridges and work together in the name of looking after our patients and getting them the best results possible.
00:01:53:23 - 00:02:19:20
Filly
And so what I've found as a functional medicine practitioner, coach, holistic trauma therapist is more of the natural, holistic space. Is that a lot of the people that come and work with this have had bad experiences with DPS. Not everyone and not every single GP. There's some wonderful, amazing, holistic, open minded people out there working to get their patients the best results.
00:02:19:22 - 00:02:51:21
Filly
but I really want to ductus your Romi to come on because not only does she share a lot of great stuff around mental health and also helping you with some, some tools and resources to bridge the gap between a GP appointment and getting psychological help, whether that's with a standard psychologist or with someone like us, where we work more with the unconscious mind and and somatics in the body to cleared, past distressing events and to help you build your capacity.
00:02:51:23 - 00:03:18:19
Filly
but she provides some really great resources. So we dig into that. And I've also picked her brain on what it takes to find a really great GP. So this is great if you're someone who is struggling with mental health issues, which is a very common symptom when it comes to body burnout, we generally say energy, mood, gut issues, mood can show off as anxiety, depression, abnormal stress response, irritability, mood swings, anger, rage.
00:03:18:21 - 00:03:44:11
Filly
so this will be really relevant for you, but also to if you're interested in in hearing a what doctor Surabhi calls herself a standard GP and to be able to get a new narrative that GP's can be really helpful and really important in your overall care at some point you will need to see a GP, whether it's to get some blood work done.
00:03:44:13 - 00:04:03:18
Filly
just to check in on, you know, making sure that you're healthy and still functioning as you're ageing or maybe there will be a crisis, an emergency where you will need some standard medical support. And so we do dig into what it takes to to find a really great GP. So I think you get a lot of value out of that too.
00:04:03:20 - 00:04:29:23
Filly
All right. Awesome. Sorry. Let's dig into today's conversation. Welcome everyone to the podcast today. I'm very excited for our special guest interview with Doctor Sharon. Me, we know each other through a business program that we're both in, and I think we might have joined at the same time. Okay. Empire builder yeah, that was back in September. And and I just like as soon as she popped off, I'm like, she's so lovely.
00:04:30:05 - 00:04:54:08
Filly
I really want to get to know her. And then we met in person, at a conference this year. And it was really lovely to just connect and, and what I love about you is that you're, you know, like a standard GP but very open to a holistic approach, a shared care approach, which a lot of people need these days.
00:04:54:10 - 00:05:09:16
Dr Shiromi
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me feeling. It's such a joy to be here. And yeah, I'm really excited to have a chat because I think we're very aligned when it comes to looking at, our patients and our clients. So I really take point of view and from a really patient centred view and yeah, I am a conventional GP.
00:05:09:18 - 00:05:25:08
Dr Shiromi
you stated GP in terms of, the way that I practice, but I think it's really important for all of us in the medical field to have a really open policy when it comes to seeing patients and putting their needs first, because at the end of the day, whether it's you or me or any other clinician, we're working to get our patients better.
00:05:25:09 - 00:05:50:08
Dr Shiromi
And if you want to see a GP for conventional medicine and you want to also see a functional practitioner, then it's my job to facilitate that and do all I can to be able to work with a team of people to make sure that you get better. That's the end goal for everybody. So creating that open line of communication, you know, the worst thing in the world would be for my patients to maybe not feel comfortable enough to tell me that they're taking X, y, z along with their medication.
00:05:50:08 - 00:06:06:02
Dr Shiromi
Or, you know, I feel judged. That's a terrible place to be in. At the end of the day, someone is doing that stuff because they want to get better. Whether they say manual you and it's our job to work together to ensure that they're safe and that they get get well. So yeah, it's important to be here to have a chat.
00:06:06:04 - 00:06:30:06
Filly
I love that. And we'll dig into how how someone can find a good GP at the end. But something that I've had some clients say to me, you know, I'm like, okay, great. Yeah. You got your blood test results back from your GP. How is the visit? and there's some clients who don't share anything that they're doing from a natural perspective and that sorry, it's like misguided.
00:06:30:08 - 00:06:39:23
Filly
It's it's really hard. It's really hard to help the patient or the client when you only have part of the picture of what they're doing.
00:06:40:00 - 00:06:58:16
Dr Shiromi
Yeah. This hold that. It can lead to a dangerous situation, to be honest. Because whether it's, you know, natural or medical in inverted commas or whatever, these things can interact. And, you know, is information that's important when we make medical decisions. So, yeah, we really need to work hard, to keep those open lines of communication.
00:06:58:22 - 00:07:14:16
Filly
Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, so as a GP like GP's general practitioner sorry, struggling a lot of areas that you're really passionate most specifically on mental health. What why why did you choose that?
00:07:14:18 - 00:07:32:23
Dr Shiromi
That is a really good question. I was reflecting on it this morning actually, because yeah, you're right. I mean, GP, we see everything. We see everything from sore backs to knees to migraines to babies to older people to mental health and everything in between. So, you know, back when I was doing medicine in the med school, I went to Monash.
00:07:33:01 - 00:07:51:17
Dr Shiromi
I realised I need to do a profession where I connect to people and share stories and, and learn about them. And, get those personal insights, because that is part of the reason why I love medicine. So that rolled out, you know, pathology sitting in a lab or radiology looking at my hands on an x ray. And then I really loved Continuity of Care.
00:07:51:19 - 00:08:05:18
Dr Shiromi
So I love being able to see someone over a period of time and get to know their story and get to meet their family and get that really sort of, you know, continuous, you know, the ups and downs of life and how they travel. It's such a beautiful part of medicine that I didn't want to be sad.
00:08:05:18 - 00:08:24:08
Dr Shiromi
And which you do when you do, like emergency medicine, for instance, when you think someone coming to the emergency department and then they disappear off to surgery, go to the wards and you don't know what happened to them. So under that rolled out a few things. And then for personal wellbeing point of view, I'm someone that needs my sleep to be, you know, a happy, vibrant person.
00:08:24:08 - 00:08:42:08
Dr Shiromi
And you know, I yeah, there you go. It's important to identify things to. And I love delivering babies. And if babies are born 9 to 5, maybe I would have done that. But they're not. And I'm not someone who functions well on night shifts and all of that. So that crossed off surgery and obstetrics and a few things here in the app.
00:08:42:10 - 00:09:00:05
Dr Shiromi
And so general practice and mental health. I've done a bit of, inpatient mental health at the Alfred Hospital where the things that I really enjoyed so delved into that further, and within GP led doing early intervention mental health I absolutely love so that's saying someone when the cracks are first appearing to get them back on track.
00:09:00:07 - 00:09:18:10
Dr Shiromi
I love it because at the end of the day, mental wellbeing permeates into every aspect of our lives. It permeates into relationships, into work, into our sense of self. So when someone comes in and they're not feeling great and their job is, you know, their performance review and their marriage is on the rocks and then, you know, not feeling so great.
00:09:18:12 - 00:09:40:15
Dr Shiromi
And we do the things we put in the work to with a lifestyle change in the psychology and all of that, and we get them better. It is amazing to see like even in 3 to 6 months, to see them reconnect with their family, to, you know, go out and play footy with their kids and to feel happy about life and go on date night on Fridays and you see them just to smile and that they're living their best life, there is nothing better as a clinician.
00:09:40:15 - 00:09:46:08
Dr Shiromi
So that is why I love mental health, because the impact and the change that we can make is is huge.
00:09:46:10 - 00:10:04:21
Filly
it really plays. It plays a role too, in the physical health as well. Sometimes it, you know, it's taking all the egg. Where does it start? It doesn't really matter, but it becomes this perpetual eating cycle especially I say with health anxiety is a huge one for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Now this is a crazy statistic.
00:10:04:21 - 00:10:15:01
Filly
54% of people with a mental illness do not seek any treatment. That's huge. I pulled that off your website, by the way.
00:10:15:03 - 00:10:42:16
Dr Shiromi
Knowing it is a huge and it's a scary statistic, isn't it? That means to everyone I say in my words, there's probably someone at home that's feeling too overwhelmed or apprehensive to come in which is super scary and part of the reason why we developed the program. But, you know, stigma plays a huge role in that. And the way that, you know, I think we've come a far in terms of where things used to be, where they are, but we still have a lot to go in terms of framing mental illness as a medical condition for which it is I think it's still seen as a condition where you just have to pull your socks
00:10:42:16 - 00:10:58:14
Dr Shiromi
up and manage it yourself to some degree. And that's why we tend to stay people. So I don't lock down the track when they're at crisis point, as opposed to saying people, in the early stages when it's, you know, it's probably easier to pull someone out of a hole when I can reach the hand, right, as opposed to when they've got to.
00:10:58:19 - 00:11:13:21
Dr Shiromi
They're in a deep hole and they've been in it for months or years, and I've got to pull out the the ladders and the pulley that can still pull you out, but it's just a bit hard. So I think that stigma plays a really big role in, creating an environment where people can come in sooner rather than later.
00:11:13:23 - 00:11:16:16
Filly
Where, where do you think the stigma has come from?
00:11:16:18 - 00:11:38:23
Dr Shiromi
I think it's longstanding. I think there's stigma from an individual point of view. And I think there's stigma from a cultural point of view. and from a society point of view as well, is it takes a lot to, to restructure that. And I think we've had a lot of campaigns and awareness now that people with knowledge that, you know, people might take a sick day for mental health, which is amazing, but people often still come in with a lot of guilt when they come in to see me for their mental wellbeing.
00:11:38:23 - 00:11:58:01
Dr Shiromi
And people often say to me, oh, it's probably nothing, but yeah, which they don't do with any other medical condition. I don't coming out their abdominal pain because I've got appendicitis. No one feels guilty for having, you know, endometriosis or appendicitis or asthma or diabetes. It's a case of here are my symptoms. Can you help me get better?
00:11:58:01 - 00:12:24:22
Dr Shiromi
But with mental health, it's just that people come in with this disclaimer of I should have probably done this, so I should have done that. I haven't done this wrong. You know, so it's something we really need to work hard, and sometimes people don't feel comfortable discussing it in the first appointment. it takes time and rapport to build up an environment as a clinician where someone feels open that they can discuss these things and they don't feel like they're going to be judged, or feel like a failure for the fact that they are where they are.
00:12:25:00 - 00:12:41:09
Dr Shiromi
No one chooses to have depression or anxiety right on chooses to be in that situation. if there was a quick fix and you could do it, you probably would have already done it. So by the time people come to see us, they need to feel validated and, you know, congratulated for taking that brave and courageous step to set up in the first place.
00:12:41:10 - 00:13:04:22
Filly
Yeah, that's so interesting. As you were talking, I was reflecting back on my own experience with depression and anxiety after my first baby. It was more depression like very shut down. I think. I am pretty sure I did like there was a pamphlet for postnatal depression and and I didn't take enough boxes to say, like, you're in full on postnatal depression.
00:13:05:00 - 00:13:28:14
Filly
but reflecting back, cuz when I did the, like the GP appointments post, having a baby, like, you know, just all the standard things. I never brought up anything around my mental health, even though I knew that I wasn't coping. But also, I didn't even have a name like I. I couldn't even say back in that point in time that I had depression or anxiety.
00:13:28:14 - 00:13:47:11
Filly
I can look back now and say, I clearly did. Yeah. and I feel like a lot of it too, is embarrassment. It's kind of like, you know, and I was putting my, my older sisters on a pedestal that, you know, they're like baby makers and they push out the babies and they're fun and they have like, heaps of kids and they, they're like, so successful.
00:13:47:13 - 00:14:11:07
Filly
Whereas I was literally, like, struggling to even go to the toilet, you know? Yeah. And so there was a lot of embarrassment. And it's interesting that I went into natural health, like looking into healing my body from a natural medicine point of view, because I actually probably didn't give my GP the whole story.
00:14:11:09 - 00:14:39:12
Dr Shiromi
Yeah, look, I think it's a two way street. I think there's those factors of maybe not opening up and the first occasion giving us the full picture, but sometimes people do have situations where they're gaslit or they're dismissed and that's not great. You know, it breaks my heart when I hear stories of that because like we said before, it takes so much courage to come in and to finally meet that you are struggling because it can be tied to our personal identity and our sense of success and being a, you know, being a great mum, all these sort of things that we really value.
00:14:39:12 - 00:14:53:19
Dr Shiromi
So it's so important that we as clinicians ask the right questions and create an environment where someone is welcome to bring up those topics without feeling the embarrassment and feel like we can, you know, work together to get you better.
00:14:53:21 - 00:15:14:07
Filly
Do you think it's an Australian cultural thing as well? Like, she'll be right, mate. Pull up your socks. In comparison to, say, like, you know, I've listened to other proxies in USA, for example, and I feel like a lot of people are a lot more open to talking about their issues and seeking help. Do you find that it's like the Australian culture that's part of the stigma?
00:15:14:12 - 00:15:34:08
Dr Shiromi
Yeah, totally. It's that stoic kind of attitude is yes, you're right. You know, just get on with the job, pull your socks up, all that kind of stuff, that place right. yeah. It's interesting when we look at the cultural, differences because there are other cultures maybe don't have that issue, but, you know, maybe people who have come from immigrant backgrounds or their parents have been through civil wars and such like that.
00:15:34:12 - 00:15:50:08
Dr Shiromi
They don't feel that they can bring it out because they haven't gone through a civil war, like it's not severe enough to discuss because they have this, you know, this thought in their head that all the parents went through a lot worse in life. So what am I complaining about having to do with this and this? And there's this guilt associated with that.
00:15:50:10 - 00:16:17:10
Dr Shiromi
So different cultures most certainly play a role in terms of, you know, creating an environment of open disclosure. And I think that's part of the reason that we need to sort of, think about a stepping stone resource between having symptoms and seeing the GP, because it's a really big light, and help people in getting the ball rolling with doing their own things and building the confidence to be able to come in and openly talk to us about their mental health and wellbeing.
00:16:17:12 - 00:16:29:19
Filly
Yeah. So how do we start breaking this silence and stigma, both from a practitioner point of view? But like a lot of our listeners, health seekers as well, the things that they can do to.
00:16:29:21 - 00:16:54:23
Dr Shiromi
Yeah, absolutely everyone plays a role with these. Absolutely everyone, whether you're a medical practitioner or you're a parent or whether you're a work colleague, we've really got to start to change the culture and be open about having these discussions about mental health and wellbeing in a really open forum without the judgement and validating people. You know, I think sometimes when someone says that they're struggling with their mental health, people can get a bit nervous and say, oh yeah, I know I've, I struggle with that too.
00:16:54:23 - 00:17:12:20
Dr Shiromi
Or, you know, and being really dismissive because it's, it can feel like an uncomfortable conversation. Oh yeah, I can think of OCD as well. And yeah, I remember when I was down and it sort of just lets the conversation, it pushes it on to something else, rather than sitting down and asking questions and asking someone, I'm really like, that sounds awful, and tell me more.
00:17:12:20 - 00:17:32:12
Dr Shiromi
And and how you managing that and creating an environment where we don't just try and push it aside. I think it's really important, to connect and to talk. I think, you know, in today's society, it's really hard with Uber Eats and Netflix and meetings and zoom and everything like that. We often, don't have that social connection like we used to.
00:17:32:12 - 00:17:46:19
Dr Shiromi
So I think it's a really important, you know, thing to really encourage people to get professional help when they do so that say that they are struggling, rather just offering a bit of ad hoc advice or for them to they'll be right. Kind of attitude.
00:17:46:21 - 00:18:13:08
Filly
I've been working, as a parent to create better beliefs for my children around this. because like when we talk about stigma and culture, I mean, it all gets programmed into us when my little really, it's like, stop crying, stop having a tantrum. dry your tears. Go, go to your room until you've calmed down, and then you can come out when you're happy and and sorry.
00:18:13:08 - 00:18:39:08
Filly
Like, I still catch myself a bit yesterday. My daughter, I can't even remember what the issue was, but she was very upset. Very upset. And my first, my first like trigger response is, was before it came out of my mouth, I stopped it. It's like, stop crying, stop crying. Whereas I've really been range retraining that first initial response of like, it's actually okay to be sad and like let out your tears.
00:18:39:10 - 00:18:52:10
Filly
Yeah, let out your tears, feel the thing and mummy's he and holding you and ready to talk. When you, when you're ready to talk about it. And it's crazy how quickly that actually clears her emotions.
00:18:52:12 - 00:18:52:18
Dr Shiromi
Yeah.
00:18:52:19 - 00:19:00:10
Filly
Like rather than stop crying, you'll be right. It's okay. That's you know, you know, your friends do like you.
00:19:00:12 - 00:19:26:04
Dr Shiromi
Yeah, absolutely. Providing that reinforcement and that positive reframe and validation and all of that. It's hard. It's hard to do that because we're all conditioned. We're all as even as parents, we're conditioned to get on with the job. Right. We want to instil resilience, but there's a way to do it that ensures that, you know, if you do want to have a struggle down the track, that she can have an open conversation with you about those worries and concerns, rather than feeling like she needs to just bottle them up and keep them.
00:19:26:06 - 00:19:45:15
Filly
Yeah, yeah. So we now practice. We work with a lot of busy, burnt out people, and often these people are running patterns like overworking or even doing overachieving perfectionism, people pleasing. in your time as a GP, like do you see a common link with people running these strong patterns and mental illness?
00:19:45:16 - 00:20:08:11
Dr Shiromi
Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. So we talk about, intrinsic factors and extrinsic factors when we talk about mental health and wellbeing. So the factors that are doing factors and the outside factors. And so most certainly post certain personality types we know have predisposed to having depression, anxiety, that personality sort of traits of being really busy and doing everything and perfectionism and all of that can play a role.
00:20:08:12 - 00:20:29:07
Dr Shiromi
And then from a work point of view, you know, working in high stress environments and that can also play a role. So, yeah, most certainly there is a correlation. And we need to acknowledge that and encourage those people with within those environments to really seek out professional help if they are struggling and not feel like they need to fix everything themselves.
00:20:29:09 - 00:20:53:19
Filly
Yeah. Yeah. so functional medicine at its crux is really preventative medicine. I mean a lot of people use it now as I'm actually sick now I need your help. But initially it was first designed to say hey what if we could actually look at the way that your system is functioning and correct imbalances before they actually eventuate into symptoms?
00:20:53:21 - 00:21:12:14
Filly
so that's what I love. Like one of the things I love about your approach as a GP and with mental health is that you talk about taking a proactive approach rather than reactive. Can you talk about like, first of all, what both of those look like? So reactive versus proactive approach.
00:21:12:16 - 00:21:30:12
Dr Shiromi
Yeah for sure. So yeah, it's really important that we take a proactive approach. That means effectively doing the things before we hit crisis point. Right. And reaction is sorting things out when we hit crisis point. So if we sort of give the example of you going to the gym, a lot of us go to the gym or partake in physical exercise for our health and well-being.
00:21:30:12 - 00:21:47:00
Dr Shiromi
We're not doing it necessarily because we've had a heart attack or stroke, but we're doing it to prevent a heart attack or stroke, and we go to the gym and we understand that, you know, doing patio and weights and all of that will prevent us from having long term physical complications and physical health issues. And so we do it.
00:21:47:02 - 00:22:05:23
Dr Shiromi
We need to take the same approach when it comes to mental health and wellbeing, rather than waiting for things to, you know, be at crisis point for us to be having thoughts of suicide, lolly ation, feeling hopeless and detached from everyone. We need to get, you know, early and to be doing the things when we're perfectly well, to stay perfectly well moving forward.
00:22:06:01 - 00:22:23:14
Dr Shiromi
and that's a lot of what our course is about as well. You know, getting in the early stages and helping you create a framework for now and for down the track as well, to ensure that you stay well throughout the course of depression or anxiety, and you've got the skills to be able to implement when you do see the cracks.
00:22:23:14 - 00:22:36:22
Dr Shiromi
So things like evidence based lifestyle change, psychological strategies, social connection, like we spoke about before, these are all things that we can do at any point, to ensure that we are keeping mentally well for the future.
00:22:37:00 - 00:22:40:19
Filly
can you elaborate a bit on some of those things, like what does that actually look like?
00:22:41:00 - 00:22:58:23
Dr Shiromi
Yeah, absolutely. And it's hard to sometimes frame it because it can feel like a lot and it can feel really overwhelming. I think when we say do all the things, you know, consult one of our program, we go through addressing stigma. we go through the diagnostic medical work up, and then we go through lifestyle change, which is really important.
00:22:58:23 - 00:23:20:02
Dr Shiromi
So we evidence based lifestyle change through diet, exercise and sleep. So we've done lots and lots and lots of studies in medicine. And we know that having a Whole foods Mediterranean sort of diet or with sugary sort of in Japan, that, you know, processed foods does, does improve mental health and wellbeing. It does reduce symptoms of depression and anxiety.
00:23:20:02 - 00:23:39:15
Dr Shiromi
It's well proven and documented. So we talk to patients about being able to implement that in a really practical step by step way, from a sleep hygiene point of view. And we've got the evidence that most people know themselves if they don't get a good night's rest or if they sleep deprived, that can impact marriage. So we talk about sleep hygiene and exercise.
00:23:39:15 - 00:23:59:06
Dr Shiromi
You know, we spoke about before. So partaking in exercise for physical health but also for mental health and wellbeing, psychological strategies, are really important in terms of, you know, understanding yourself and your worries and being able to identify them. So we talk about that in concept two of the program and concept three, Social Connection, which is a really big one that I think we often leave out.
00:23:59:11 - 00:24:23:11
Dr Shiromi
And it's becoming a really big issue moving forward with today's day and age of all the stuff and the computers in the, you know, the disengagement through, like we said before, through meal delivery services and TV and all of that sort of things. So creating an environment where you socially connect with people and you have contact with people, where you can have these discussions and vent about your worries or concerns and not feel like you're carrying the mental load of everything yourself.
00:24:23:11 - 00:24:46:04
Dr Shiromi
So you're connecting with, whether it be mother's group or connecting with people at work beyond the work environment, to ask them about their weekends and things like that. So, you know, we've really got to work hard to be able to identify what we need to do and to do it well before we hit crisis point, because it's a lot to take on at a vulnerable situation to then go, okay, now you have to make friends and now you have to eat healthy and you have to exercise.
00:24:46:05 - 00:25:04:08
Dr Shiromi
It's like when someone comes in to see us after a heart attack, it can feel really overwhelming. All the lifestyle change that we ask them to make. So if we can start making small changes now and that's the key, is not to get overwhelmed and to take it one step at a time and make small little changes and build up to a more healthy lifestyle overall.
00:25:04:10 - 00:25:31:13
Filly
yeah. I mean, it's a lot of the stuff that people know they should be doing that not a lot of people do until they hit that. Like pain signals are on crap. Maybe I should be doing those things that I know can help me. and it's interesting to, like, I've got so much to say about that because I'm curious, why do you feel like people know what they should be doing, but they're not doing it?
00:25:31:15 - 00:25:51:01
Dr Shiromi
because of time and because of life in general, there is so much to do with these days and so much from a coping point of view that people feel the overwhelm really quickly. That's the reason why lifestyle change is the hard option, rather that you just almost want a quick fix. And the truth of the matter is, there is no quick fix and I am really upfront about that.
00:25:51:01 - 00:26:08:07
Dr Shiromi
Even with that program that, you know, we've condensed it to effectively, people can do it within three days with an hour commitment. And I, you know, sat down before I created the program and just condensed everything as much as I could because people are so put on time and they don't want the fluff, they just want the actionable steps.
00:26:08:09 - 00:26:28:01
Dr Shiromi
and also when we look at lifestyle, like I was saying before, people sometimes review it and think, oh, can I take out for my lunch at work and I'm not sleeping, I've got work commitments and I'm gonna look after the kids and I've got no time, but how much am I meant to? And then it gets pushed aside as opposed to going, okay, all of that is going on, and it's maybe not great, but I'm going to make one change this week.
00:26:28:01 - 00:26:45:00
Dr Shiromi
I'm going to meal prep on Sunday for my lunch, and I'm going to make a healthy lunch and pop it in the fridge in a Tupperware container so that I don't have to go out and buy the unhealthy processed food at lunch. And that's one step. And then just doing that that week, and then the week after going, okay, now I've kind of got into the routine of doing that.
00:26:45:02 - 00:27:04:10
Dr Shiromi
I'm going to focus on making sure that I drink enough water this week because I don't do that and do that. And then the third week going, you know what? I might get off the bus or the trying to stop earlier and walk a few hundred metres to work, just so I get some incidental exercise. And if you keep at that over a few months before you know it, you've dramatically changed and turned things around.
00:27:04:10 - 00:27:12:11
Dr Shiromi
So I think it's about the overwhelm and not letting it get to you. And just coming up with small strategies to to get the ball rolling.
00:27:12:13 - 00:27:41:11
Filly
We talk about, 1% that every day or do the minimum to get the maximum results or be the maximum. and I think that that's like again going back to busy burnt out people running especially perfectionism patterns is that I feel like that's where people fall off as well. They feel like in order for me to get the result or to even prevent this thing from happening, I have to have all the bits and pieces in place and I have to do it perfectly, otherwise it's not going to work.
00:27:41:13 - 00:28:02:09
Filly
which is not the case. You can actually do the minimum and get really great results. And then like as you said, like just habit stacking over time so that then it less overwhelm, but it also becomes part of who you are when you're able to do it incrementally as opposed to far out, trying to do all of these.
00:28:02:09 - 00:28:04:23
Filly
And I've failed, so I may as well not do it at all.
00:28:05:01 - 00:28:33:14
Dr Shiromi
Yeah. And, so just acknowledging the small wins when you do manage to do the small things, I think from a perfectionist point of view, sometimes we only acknowledge the really big achievements and forget to acknowledge the small wins in terms of, you know, whether it means that you did a bit of an incidental exercise or you went out to kick the footy with the kids on the weekend and just going on like I made the time, just socially connected to exercise and to do this and take the dog for a walk, like little things like that, actually acknowledging them rather than pushing them aside as a non-event.
00:28:33:16 - 00:28:55:18
Filly
Yeah, we talk a lot about the unconscious mind to, when it comes to healing. And this is interesting. The unconscious mind doesn't know the difference between a small win and a big win. So like maybe cognitively consciously you do, but your unconscious mind is like this little baby that, you know, you can really, actually have so much power to create and to shift baggage from the unconscious state.
00:28:55:20 - 00:29:16:09
Filly
But I love that. So even for myself, when it's like a small win or like, you know, something, a goal that I'm working towards, whether it's health or business or whatever. When it's small, I like, like this is so like I get as excited as if it was like a big milestone win, because I know that my whole body doesn't know the difference.
00:29:16:09 - 00:29:21:05
Filly
And so it's going to be like create that momentum and and movement forwards.
00:29:21:08 - 00:29:44:00
Dr Shiromi
Yeah, absolutely. And that to be honest, is the GP. That's why that review appointment at three and a six month period of my patients is so me one of my favourite appointments, because we get to go through and we do the questionnaires again and we have a bit of a chat and you say the quantitatively, you say the symptom reduction from people taking very simple measures like exercise and some changes in diet and sleep hygiene.
00:29:44:02 - 00:30:00:04
Dr Shiromi
And you see like and you have a chart and you show the patient, you go look like you have made these changes and you put in the work and here's the impact. And then you get this beautiful positive reinforcement where people go, oh, because I did that. This is now the situation. And then that motivates them to keep going.
00:30:00:04 - 00:30:08:10
Dr Shiromi
And so it's it's beautiful cycle. And that's why I'm so passionate about early intervention mental help. Because when we get in there with the small things we can, the impact we have is tenfold.
00:30:08:14 - 00:30:30:06
Filly
Yeah, yeah. It's so good. Yeah okay. Good question. Because I know that this is a question I get from clients all the time. especially more like ones because, you know, there's a network there, but like, how can I find a good, good GP or a great GP and that's, something that you love talking about as well.
00:30:30:08 - 00:30:58:15
Filly
and some people have had bad experiences in the past where they haven't been able to share their whole story or, you know, they've been gaslit or whatever. Yeah. which isn't helpful for them and for their long term wellness and wellbeing, because it is important to have a GP in your corner. so what should people be looking for when they're finding a GP?
00:30:58:17 - 00:31:07:06
Filly
Like a great GP? They questions that they could be asking whether it's even like the secretary, the admin or what should they be searching on Google.
00:31:07:08 - 00:31:24:10
Dr Shiromi
Why? Yeah, really good question. first of all, just to validate that, because I remember hearing that a lot when I started junior training as a GP, people saying, oh, it's taking me so long to find a GP. You're not going on that label on holidays, are you? And I couldn't get it because I was working with amazing clinicians and myself.
00:31:24:10 - 00:31:41:09
Dr Shiromi
To be honest, I didn't have a regular GP until I had my little one, and then I realised I probably need to get organised now and some chronic health stuff came up and it took me as a clinician, as a GP, it took me three goes to find my GP and that's someone who knows the system in and out and who has contacts.
00:31:41:11 - 00:32:02:07
Dr Shiromi
And it's not necessarily because the other GP's weren't good or knowledgeable, because it's a lot more than the the credentials and I well, when it comes to finding a great GP, it's a really unique relationship isn't it, because we need someone who's thorough and comprehensive, someone who listens, someone who doesn't judge. We need someone who we can have a cry with and not feel like a failure.
00:32:02:08 - 00:32:29:21
Dr Shiromi
And we need someone to prep us up to motivate us so much. Call us that when we're being a slack up someone you know, it's to have that that communication with. And I think it's really important that if you have had a bad experience to keep going in trying to find someone and I know that's hard and that shouldn't be the case and honestly breaks my heart on that story, especially with mental health, because it takes so much courage to come in and to work yourself to a point where you can come in and be open with what you're struggling with.
00:32:29:21 - 00:32:49:15
Dr Shiromi
So to hear that people have had a negative experience, it's just a gut punch for that person at that point in time. But persist with it because yeah, when you do find a great GP, it's worth its weight in gold, because for my regular patients, when they come in, I know whether they're well or not, within really seconds of them sitting down just by their body language and the way that they present.
00:32:49:17 - 00:33:05:17
Dr Shiromi
And, you know, it's so much easier for me to be straight with them and to be upfront with them and to really question them in terms of how to find a great GP. It's just be aware that it might take more than one shot. I think that's the first thing to acknowledge. Then think about what you need as a person.
00:33:05:17 - 00:33:25:11
Dr Shiromi
What sort of personality do you want? Do you want someone? you know, I've got a young, fresh approach and it's you know, really black and white in the way that they communicate. Do you want someone that's more soft and nurturing? What sort of personality is going to gel with you in the way that you want information presented in a way in which you can be open and vulnerable as well.
00:33:25:13 - 00:33:46:00
Dr Shiromi
So think about the things that you need. most certainly you mentioned speaking to reception. That's one of the most untapped resources. That is a great resource when it comes to you being able to find a great GP, because our receptionist know us really well. They know us. I have lunch with us and our personality types. They know our special interests, which is another thing to bring out, most certainly special interests.
00:33:46:00 - 00:34:04:14
Dr Shiromi
So, I love mental health and so I would do it for training and got more conferences. And I'm really passionate about that area of medicine. So if that's you then come and see me for that. There are most certainly JP's that specialise in other areas, but speak to receptionists and just say, you know, I want someone with this sort of approach, who maybe has a special interest in this.
00:34:04:14 - 00:34:33:05
Dr Shiromi
Who would you recommend? That is right, quite cheap. Speaking to friends and family is also really good because chances are, if your bestie vibes with mate, you're probably going to vibe with me as well. So have a chat to friends and try and find a great GP in that sort of a sense. Google reviews and Facebook get. Yes, look at them for sure, but just be aware that sometimes if someone didn't get exactly what they wanted, they can go on a bit of a rant and it can be a little bit, tricky to figure that out, but most certainly review that and have a look.
00:34:33:07 - 00:34:55:00
Dr Shiromi
And I think the point is going and say someone and suss them out. Right. That's another big thing. Often when it comes to depression and anxiety, by the time that hits, you are in a really vulnerable state. and we want you to find a great GP before that state, if we can, because that way, at least when you walk in, you know that the person you're saying is a good egg, they're not going to judge you, they're going to listen.
00:34:55:02 - 00:35:13:04
Dr Shiromi
So you have to try and put in the hard work before you get unwell. So it might mean that you're going in for a flu shot or you're going in to have you regular pat smear, or slag with me now, or you're going in to get the kids reviewed for the years or whatever. And I reckon from a five minute consult, you will get a sense of that person.
00:35:13:06 - 00:35:37:18
Dr Shiromi
And whether you feel like they are a great GP for you to stay in the long term. So the key there is to not wait for the crisis situation, but again, for action and try and find someone that's, going to connect with you well before you get sick. Also look at things like convenience because that's really important when we talk about, preventative health and protection, we're going to ask my patients every time they see me for mental health.
00:35:37:20 - 00:36:00:08
Dr Shiromi
We organise a follow up appointment because it's a chronic health condition. It's no different to diabetes or asthma. And I see those patients every 36 months. And I will say, yeah, right, we'll see you in six months time. And here's our plan of action. And obviously come in early if you need to, but it's usually quite far out to where my practices or if the hours are tricky, you need to send me off to work and I close shop at three or whatever it is that's not going to work.
00:36:00:08 - 00:36:19:00
Dr Shiromi
So find a clinic that no pathology on site is important or it has after hours a week in accessibility. Think about all those things from a practical point of view, and find a clinician that you can can say without too much trouble because you might see them acutely when you're unwell. But when it comes to preventative health in the long term, we've got to make it easy.
00:36:19:02 - 00:36:30:21
Filly
I know that listeners are probably like loving you and they and they will have two questions. One, are you accepting clients? Oh, patient. Sorry. I also do you do telehealth like as a GP?
00:36:31:03 - 00:36:53:11
Dr Shiromi
Yeah. Look really good question. I haven't moved out of the office when it comes to GP. Unfortunately to create an online program. the good part of that might be your question. My answer to that is that I am the one that presents my online course. And, you know, I'm a really passionate GP when it comes to mental health and wellbeing and the reason I've moved to the online space, it's self-directed and done.
00:36:53:11 - 00:37:10:03
Dr Shiromi
The course with me speaking to camera is that I am so passionate about this area of medicine and of wellbeing and health, and when I was sitting in my office, I could only say 20 patients a day. and that's not very many. The big scary things, especially when we pulled up the stat that we did before about how many people are not coming in.
00:37:10:03 - 00:37:28:14
Dr Shiromi
So you do get me, on the hotline for a grind, which makes me, first of all. But you do most certainly. And you can use our online program while you're waiting to find someone, because it can take time. It can take a few weeks, sometimes months, to find the right click. and then, you know, use us as an adjunct to saying a GP.
00:37:28:14 - 00:37:51:23
Dr Shiromi
It's also really hard to GP's now to have that focus on holistic primary care prevention because of the cost of living and resource allocation, all that sort of thing. Often when people come to see us, they're coming in with a shopping list of ailments that they want sorted out. And so back in the day, when we used to sit there and be able to spend time to talk to our patients about their exercise and their, you know, proactive mental health, wellbeing plan and all of that sort of stuff we don't do anymore.
00:37:51:23 - 00:38:10:03
Dr Shiromi
It's my ground to elbow pain, to rush to flu shot, to, you know, a breast exam. Okay. Next. And so there's no time to have these discussions and then cost of living people. You know it is expensive to say a GP or a psychologist now as well. So people want their bang for their buck when it comes to health care, which I get.
00:38:10:03 - 00:38:29:14
Dr Shiromi
But then it means the bit that drops off is actually one of the most important parts, which is this preventative health aspect, which that's how I start as GP. That's the stuff the preventative care frontline health is, is what makes our job have such a big impact. And, you know, a lot of funding, even from a government point of view, is cutting down on preventative health.
00:38:29:14 - 00:38:43:09
Dr Shiromi
And that's not the way to work, because down the track, it will catch up. You will go a little down the track if we don't do the stuff now. So it's so important for you to prioritise, those preventive health measures early on.
00:38:43:10 - 00:39:12:00
Filly
I love that too. Like that's why we sort of stepped away from just like a paper console, that big piece of paper do all the things. You know, a lot of people need more education, more support, more knowledge. And so when you can put that into the course that you've created to, for the bridge for Mental Health, you know, like, imagine having sharing that amount of information in a ten minute GP.
00:39:12:02 - 00:39:14:04
Filly
you know, that would take probably a whole year kind of thing.
00:39:14:06 - 00:39:30:23
Dr Shiromi
It's not it's just not practical isn't. And I think it's really important to acknowledge that it's an adjunct care model. So my online course doesn't replace the need to have 1 to 1 care, because at the end of the day, I'm very big on this in the in the course. We speak about it as well that I say that we aren't treating depression or anxiety.
00:39:30:23 - 00:39:50:01
Dr Shiromi
We are treating you the person. We aren't trading conditions. So most certainly there is a lot of information, you know, and we provide all of that in our, online self-directed course. But that doesn't negate the impact of 1 to 1 psychological care and people sitting down and talking to you about what's going on with your life, what are your stresses, who do you live with?
00:39:50:01 - 00:40:08:23
Dr Shiromi
And you know, all of that sort of thing, that 1 to 1 care is really important. But if we can teach you all the stuff you need to know beforehand in terms of the, the generic lifestyle advice and the psychological strategies and social connection, it means when you do go to see the psychologist for the 1 to 1 care, you've done all the groundwork.
00:40:08:23 - 00:40:41:12
Dr Shiromi
Your foundations are set, and it's beautiful to hear feedback from psychologists to say that this patient is doing so well because they've done the hard, foundational work. it's a holistic model of care. So now they're getting better much, much quicker than a patient who maybe didn't do our program. It doesn't have a good understanding of their condition and isn't informed and engaged in doing the lifestyle change, for instance, and understanding what psychotherapy is, you know, I've seen in, you know, previously when I was working in clinics, I would see patients who maybe referred to a psychologist by other GP and done a review on them, and they stopped going.
00:40:41:12 - 00:40:56:09
Dr Shiromi
And I've gone on, why did you stop seeing the psychologist? And I went, oh, because a psychologist is asking me questions about my parents divorce, and I don't want to talk about that. I want to talk about, you know, my current work stress. I've got, well, I've had someone has an explain the.
00:40:56:09 - 00:40:58:00
Filly
Dots.
00:40:58:02 - 00:41:19:00
Dr Shiromi
Totally. I not to talk about job in GP letters to prime and prep you so you understand what cognitive behavioural therapy is and what psychological practices in that you know, the way that we do the world and our early childhood experiences framed how we say the view, you know, how we view the world and our approaches. And it's important to identify that to help reframe and yada yada, yada.
00:41:19:00 - 00:41:39:11
Dr Shiromi
Someone just patient understood that they were able to go back and engage in therapy and understand the process. And that's a key step that based and yeah, that led to someone falling off the wagon and luckily that they came in to see me, but maybe they maybe another person would come back in to say anyone and would then struggle and feel really unwell until they were at crisis point.
00:41:39:11 - 00:41:58:12
Dr Shiromi
So I think we need to come up with innovative new models of care that provide information online. Self-directed learning platform and then allows the time for GPS. Because I've done that work, you know, the patient just turn around away from the computer and look at the person and connect and and talk to them and, and hear their concerns and worries.
00:41:58:14 - 00:42:17:14
Filly
That's so true. as you're talking I'm like I think I find that like if you're a client a new client has maybe binged on some of our podcasts or read my book or you know, whether it's ours or someone else's that they kind of get what it takes to holistically view. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
00:42:17:14 - 00:42:50:05
Filly
They are like so ready to get amazing results and quite fast as well as opposed to someone who, I don't know, maybe got recommended by a friend. They're like, they solved my issues, go see them. And then they come and they're like, so unaware of how all the dots connect to actually be able to heal yourself, you're still can 100% get results, but it like there's so much that you can do even before investing in a one on one appointment with someone, where your results can just be amplified as opposed to previous.
00:42:50:06 - 00:43:07:00
Dr Shiromi
so in that saving time and money, at the end of the day as well, isn't it like you don't need many minutes? And, you know, we talk about the cost of health care and the cost of wellbeing, but we often miss talking about, well, the cost of not, you know, sick days and reduced work productivity and all of that.
00:43:07:00 - 00:43:11:18
Dr Shiromi
That comes at a cost as well. So we really need to prioritise our mental health and well-being.
00:43:11:20 - 00:43:30:06
Filly
Yeah. Love it. Thank you so much for sharing so generously. If, anyone listening wants to find out more about, your course, the GP cloud cloud GP sorry and mental health or to connect with you, how can how can people find you?
00:43:30:08 - 00:43:57:19
Dr Shiromi
Yeah of course. So our course is available online. It's self-directed at the clergy App.com dot AEW. So you can pop on there and check out everything that we cover and sign up for native Referral Medicare. and so yeah, we'd love to see you. And we're going to have a free resources on there as well to help you prepare for GP appointments and psychology sessions, and also to figure out whether or not you are struggling with depression or anxiety, or maybe you're having a bad day or bad week, because that can be really tricky as well.
00:43:57:20 - 00:44:01:02
Dr Shiromi
And it's not. We're we're on Instagram at the cloud GP.
00:44:01:04 - 00:44:05:08
Filly
Awesome. So good. Well thank you so much. It was lovely having you on.
00:44:05:10 - 00:44:11:09
Dr Shiromi
Thanks so much Julie. You have a lovely day. Thanks.
00:44:11:11 - 00:44:21:13
Filly
Thank you so much for listening. We so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love by sharing this episode.
00:44:21:15 - 00:44:39:22
Chris
You can also write your own state of burnout and the root cause contributors by taking our Ending Body Burnout assessment on our website and if you're interested in learning about that group or one on one ending buddy burnout programs, shoot us a DM via Instagram or Facebook. Hey, have the best day ever!
