00:00:03:07 - 00:00:16:23
Chris
Hello and welcome to the ending Body Burn Out Show. We are your host, Chris and Filly co-founders of a multi-award-winning winning functional medicine practice, serving busy people with energy, mood and gut issues.
00:00:17:00 - 00:00:24:21
Filly
While busyness, addictive doing, people pleasing and perfectionism might be the norm, it's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
00:00:25:00 - 00:00:38:05
Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic root, root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplements hoping something might stick.
00:00:38:05 - 00:00:46:07
Filly
Sorry, get ready to heal your body, get your spark back deeply, connect with yourself and step into the life of your dreams.
00:00:46:10 - 00:00:56:15
Chris
Let's dive in.
00:00:56:17 - 00:01:28:17
Filly
Welcome. Welcome to the party today. It's Filly here. I am so excited for this episode today. I think I always say that we have such amazing, intelligent people on our podcast. But before we dive into the episode, I just wanted to do a quick announcement that we are coming to Brisbane on the 16th of April, which is a Tuesday, and we are holding our next book tour book party at 6:00 to 7:30 p.m. at Scrumptious Reads in Red Hill.
00:01:28:17 - 00:01:50:18
Filly
And Chris and I are super excited. I'm bringing Chris along to this one as well. If you would like to attend, go to the show notes and click on book tour and you can book your seat. It is free. There is going to be lots of in-depth conversation around how to end your body burn out. We're going to have Q&A.
00:01:50:18 - 00:02:12:01
Filly
We're going to take you through a brain retraining exercise. There's going to be a special guest attending. And we'll have food and drinks all healthy, of course. And it's going to be so much fun. And I would love to see you there. I'd love to give you a hug in real life. So. Yep, that is in a couple of weeks.
00:02:12:03 - 00:02:45:01
Filly
Now, on to today's episode. So we have the amazing Bronwyn, the kid who is a Tasmanian based mould testing technician in building biology just and she is super passionate about helping you create a healthy home. So we're going to dive into all things mould specifically how it applies to our homes and buildings. So in our practice we actually do work with a lot of clients who end up having a mould issue.
00:02:45:01 - 00:03:09:19
Filly
Not everyone does, but mould can definitely be part of a contributing factor to your body. Burn out symptoms, say energy, mood, gut issues. It can definitely be a hidden root cause. And you know, so I'm very proficient in testing the body for the mould and testing other body systems to help clear mould from the body and help you to become more resilient.
00:03:09:19 - 00:03:40:14
Filly
So you tolerate mould better. But what I don't know a lot about is building biology. So I really wanted Bronwyn to come on the show to give our listeners a more complete picture into how to address mould. If you're struggling with mould illness or if you're, you know, worrying about, or maybe wondering if you're Modi's mole, your home is mouldy and if it's affecting your health.
00:03:40:16 - 00:04:06:06
Filly
So Chris and I have had our own fair share of mouldy homes, which we chat to Bronwyn about in the episode, and it no doubt contributed to my own pass body burnout and chronic health issues. It wasn't the thing or the only thing, but it definitely impacted the health of my body and we see heat and mould as I mentioned before, in so many other clients as well.
00:04:06:08 - 00:04:31:21
Filly
In fact that's how I first connected with Bronwyn. So we have a mutual client. I was working with this woman and also her son who were experiencing mould related health issues and over the their time and spending time with them, I'm like, You really need to address this mould in your house. You're not improving the way that I would expect you to improve.
00:04:31:23 - 00:05:03:23
Filly
And so over time she reached out to Bronwyn to test and re remove the mould from her home. Now there's some really cool and interesting stuff. So did you know that 24% of the population have a gene mutation that makes them susceptible to mould illness and that a third of homes have mould issues? So if you're listening, it's highly likely that you might have a mould issue either inside your body or in your home, or maybe one of your family members do.
00:05:04:01 - 00:05:27:08
Filly
So listen up to all the insights, Mythbusters and practical tips that Bronwyn brings to you today. I'm so excited and a bit more about Bronwyn. So Bronwyn kid is your go to for all things healthy Homes. She has a focus on helping people tackle mould related illnesses. Bronwyn is on a mission to make your living space safer and healthier.
00:05:27:10 - 00:05:51:02
Filly
She helps you to navigate the complexities of water damaged buildings. Her knack for understanding the ins and outs of mould and water damage issues will put your mind at ease as she keeps you through the process. Brennan's journey into healthy living isn't just professional, it's also personal with a solid background in health. Science has her own health challenges and a passion for sustainable living.
00:05:51:04 - 00:06:18:21
Filly
She brings a warm, personal touch to everything that she does, and I definitely know you'll be able to feel that during our conversation today. So she provides detailed, easy to understand reports tailored to homeowners and renters, empowering them with trusted guidance to create healthier indoor environments and to provide independent evidence based resource reports to third parties such as insurance companies and real estate professionals.
00:06:18:23 - 00:06:31:11
Filly
Bronwyn The approach is all about making health focussed choices for your home easy and enjoyable. So let's dive in and pick her brains.
00:06:31:13 - 00:06:43:18
Chris
Okay, So welcome everybody to this episode of the ending Body Burn Out Show. We're super excited to have our guest Bronwyn, on the show today. Bronwyn, thanks so much for joining us. Super excited to how.
00:06:43:18 - 00:06:45:16
Bronwyn
Great to be here.
00:06:45:18 - 00:06:48:15
Chris
Thanks for coming on Filly. Let's dive in.
00:06:48:16 - 00:07:07:21
Filly
Yeah, I'm so excited to talk to you. We actually have a mutual client who was like, Yeah, you need to talk to Bronwyn. She's amazing. She looked at my house and now and this lady was experiencing a lot of mould illness as well as her children. And so I'm like.
00:07:07:23 - 00:07:10:17
Bronwyn
she's in Tasmania. Yeah, she's so cool.
00:07:10:20 - 00:07:24:21
Filly
So anyway, we're really excited to have you on our podcast today. So let's dive into why you're so obsessive around mould and healthy homes.
00:07:24:23 - 00:07:51:13
Bronwyn
That is a good question. Yeah, I saw it's been a long time coming. I've been quite interested in healthy homes for a while, which you know is stemmed from a few places, but primarily it stemmed from my previous business and the the mission I had with that, which was around replacing single use plastics in homes and there's the sustainability side of that, getting rid of plastic from the earth.
00:07:51:13 - 00:08:23:20
Bronwyn
But then there's also the big health side of it and how going plastic free or low waste encourages a more Whole Foods and prevents you from eating food that's been in contact with some of those plastics. So it's sort of stemmed from that mission with the start of the business. And I feel like I found out about building biology and I sort of had it in the back of my mind like, that would be really cool to do.
00:08:23:21 - 00:08:51:09
Bronwyn
And then sort of around 20, 21, I experienced a few health challenges myself and I'm still not I don't have much clarity around it at this point as to what exactly it was. You guys will probably be digging a little bit deeper. It was highly likely a bit of burn out and, you know, investigating that and what was happening at the time.
00:08:51:11 - 00:09:14:09
Bronwyn
I realised I just needed a break and then I decided to really pull back on the business and have a bit of a rest for a while and kind of reassess what I was doing and decided it was time for a change. So then I entered the world of building biology and and loving it, and a huge part of building biology and the work that we do is in mould.
00:09:14:12 - 00:09:39:18
Bronwyn
So as building biologists we specialise in looking for things in the environment that can affect our health. So mainly in the built environment. So things like our homes, our offices and the buildings that we spend time in and how whether it be mould or toxins, chemicals or other critters like dust mites and or all sorts of things and how that affects our health.
00:09:39:18 - 00:10:00:09
Bronwyn
So mode is the biggest part of that. And actually looking back now, I started studying building biology. I do have some history with mould, which is highly likely contributed to my fatigue and the health issues. I was experienced in around 2021. Yeah.
00:10:00:11 - 00:10:28:10
Filly
I remember we live in a new house now, but we were living in a house that was built in the 1800s. Beautiful house that was just like renovations to renovations over the over the years. One day I was walking to the toilet in the bathroom and the floor just sunk underneath my feet around. And we kind of suspected that there were issues because it's it's not funny like that.
00:10:28:12 - 00:10:49:13
Filly
Mould has that very interesting smell. But yeah, the whole floor in the bathroom just collapsed and my gosh, it was so gross when we had a blast, like coming in to totally renovate the whole bathroom. It was just like mould ever so, so, so.
00:10:49:15 - 00:10:55:06
Bronwyn
Everywhere. So yeah, that some serious water damage that Yeah.
00:10:55:08 - 00:11:01:15
Filly
Yeah, I'm not really sure. I don't think they knew. They were just really old pipes, really old pipes.
00:11:01:16 - 00:11:05:02
Chris
And like but not very well paid either.
00:11:05:02 - 00:11:28:07
Filly
Yeah. And then I think, I think back to my history too. When I first moved out of home, I lived in a flat in Hobart and the bathroom. We would clean the walls and literally and we'll talk about that a bit later because I would like to get your advice. Yes, Literally within a week that black mould would be like all over the walls and the roof again.
00:11:28:07 - 00:11:40:00
Filly
And then later on when we got married and lived in Sydney, we had three floods or four floods where it was probably mould everywhere. So it wow.
00:11:40:00 - 00:12:15:16
Bronwyn
So I think at this point, yeah, it's important that we identify that mould will grow when there's a moisture issue. So you mentioned water damage and floods and one thing I wish more people would understand that if you have a mould problem, it means you have a water problem. Or it could be the flood that has been in the house, you know, many years ago and not dried properly and not dried within a short enough time frame, or it could be the roof flake or the leaking pipes in your old home, for example, that just leak for a long time.
00:12:15:16 - 00:12:33:02
Bronwyn
And on a small, even a small trip. And that can lead to pretty serious issues because when we have that high levels of moisture in the building materials or in the soil surrounding the home or now contents as well. And that's when we say to our growth, yeah.
00:12:33:04 - 00:12:50:02
Filly
What about the the unit in Hobart at uni. I kind of think about like if there's mould is growing all over the walls and you clean it and it comes straight back, Is that usually a water issue inside the walls or is it probably poor ventilation?
00:12:50:04 - 00:13:16:05
Bronwyn
No, look, it can be. The mode is a complex topic really, because every house is different. Everybody uses their homes in a different way. So everyone is putting moisture into the into the atmosphere in their home. It to a different level. Every day is structured differently. Bathrooms have different ventilation, people have different like showers. There's so many factors that can come into this.
00:13:16:05 - 00:13:47:09
Bronwyn
So yeah, it can in bathrooms, it's you've obviously got the high level of moisture going into it from showering. And if that's not enough ventilation going out so the exhaust fan is not strong enough or if you're not using it, which is quite common, especially with teenagers, they don't like using the for those factors can mean that the moisture stayed on the wall for a long enough time that you're going to get mould growing.
00:13:47:10 - 00:14:29:17
Bronwyn
So, you know, it sounds like you've cleaned it off at that time, which there's good ways and bad ways of cleaning it. Maybe we can get into that later. But if you're not addressing the moisture issue, that is just going to keep coming back. Yeah. So I see a lot of people and I have a lot of people call me who have situations like that and they they think it's okay to just go and get someone or get someone in to clean it and they might get one of the remediation companies to come in and fog, which just essentially putting a chemical on it, which, you know, kind of pauses growth for a little while
00:14:29:18 - 00:14:36:20
Bronwyn
and then they don't address the moisture issue and then it comes back and then I start getting sick, which is not what we want. Yeah.
00:14:36:22 - 00:14:47:05
Filly
To be honest, I was only 18. We probably only cleaned it maybe like twice a year and then was like, it's back again.
00:14:47:07 - 00:14:53:22
Bronwyn
that's probably video. Did anyone in the home have any health issues during
00:14:54:00 - 00:15:10:11
Filly
Look, that's probably where I started developing things like anxiety, although that was a combination of lots of stuff. But you PCOS in infertility that I later found out. Yeah like I had definitely health issues dating.
00:15:10:13 - 00:15:12:12
Bronwyn
Yeah interesting to think.
00:15:12:17 - 00:15:32:12
Filly
So around that why let's just dig into like and I'm sure the our listeners and a lot of people have heard about mould and that it can be bad but why is it so toxic in then people who are more susceptible to it than others in terms of developing health issues?
00:15:32:14 - 00:16:04:07
Bronwyn
There definitely are people who are more susceptible to developing health issues from mould. So there's been some research that has found people with a certain gene type have more susceptibility to mould. Yeah, I'm not an expert in this side of things, but it has to do with how the body data detoxes mycotoxins and these people with the gene mutation, you know, have have it build up in their bodies and the ramifications happen.
00:16:04:09 - 00:16:27:01
Bronwyn
So there's that group of people which ends up being about a quarter of the population, which is quite astounding when you think about it, and that fact that there's at least a third of homes in Australia that have been found to have toxic levels of mouse in them, you can see why there's a lot of people getting quite ill from this.
00:16:27:02 - 00:17:19:21
Bronwyn
So there's the genetics side of things. There's different lifestyle factors that may affect our ability to detox it. And then some people will also get more acute symptoms with you. People with a different genetic type may get acute symptoms like the codes, some short term sinus issues, maybe a bit of asthma and other allergies. But then we get symptoms right through to the more chronic issues like the chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, sometimes there's chronic inflammatory response syndrome, which there's a lot of research around the link between that and mould and particularly water damaged buildings because it's also important to think about how mould, as I said before, is a result of water damage and moisture.
00:17:19:23 - 00:17:34:08
Bronwyn
But also with water damage and moisture, we may see bacteria growing and other microbes which could potentially contribute to health issues. So it may not just be mould in a lot of circumstances.
00:17:34:10 - 00:17:59:17
Filly
Yeah, those those stats you mentioned. So a quarter of people have the genetic mutation and did you say a third of homes? That's huge. When I found out about those stats because I probably wasn't earlier on as a practitioner asking enough questions around mould until I'm like what a quarter of people have this gene and a third of homes have toxic mould.
00:17:59:19 - 00:18:36:05
Filly
We must look at this like any person who has any sign of body burn out, like energy, mood, gut issues, inflammatory issues as there may be a mould contributing to that, a root cause for sure. And I find that like a lot of our clients and listeners who are running like they're busy over doing high achieving patterns and puts their system into a fight or flight response as well, where they become more susceptible to toxins in the environment where their body is always like danger, Where is the danger from like always feeling flighty.
00:18:36:05 - 00:18:51:13
Filly
And so that's where people can start developing thing. Or even if they have this mutation, it starts to actually express because their system is looking for danger and mould can be considered dangerous to the body.
00:18:51:15 - 00:19:18:18
Bronwyn
Absolutely. And I do see people with a lot of neurological related symptoms. So that's the headaches, the fatigue, the brain fog, the memory loss. And I've also seen clients who have, you know, become delirious because of their mould exposure. It's it's quite scary for some people, you know, living with the memory loss, not being able to remember what they did half an hour ago and not being able to escape either.
00:19:18:20 - 00:19:59:09
Bronwyn
Not being able to escape that their home and location. That's yeah, quite, quite complicated when you get into housing and that side of things. So yeah, it's, it's a big issue that needs to be addressed and one third of the homes is probably the baseline statistic. I've also seen research those one research papers conducted a few years ago by Utah's Here University in Tasmania and they found that 40% of new builds, so new buildings have mould in them and that's that's absurd.
00:19:59:09 - 00:20:18:01
Bronwyn
So the issue also stems into our home design and the construction code and, you know, things that are happening in when our buildings are being built, you know, before the occupants even get in at, they're designed to fail. Wow.
00:20:18:03 - 00:20:24:03
Chris
Why, why, why is this so such a such an issue? Where's this coming from?
00:20:24:05 - 00:20:50:02
Bronwyn
That's a big question. So with the new builds, the way that we are designing and building houses is often not fit for the different climate zones that we have. So for example, in Tasmania, where you have so many different climate science, we've got alpine regions, we've got dry regions like down in the Midlands, we've got wetter regions on the West Coast.
00:20:50:04 - 00:21:16:22
Bronwyn
And I say a lot of buildings that are not designed for the location. So, you know, housing affordability is an issue which I believe is is one of the reasons that we're having these issues, because we're pumping out these buildings that are cheaper so it's more affordable and we're cutting costs and cutting corners on the design and then not being built for for the location and the climate.
00:21:16:22 - 00:21:52:08
Bronwyn
So we're seeing buildings that are built with high energy efficiency. So buildings that are designed to hold on to the air and have lower turnovers, turnovers of the air inside. And so we're saying what water vapour that is produced from things like cooking and bathing and even breeding. It's important to remember we also reduce water vapour when we breathe and in order to keep the heat inside or to cool inside, we're also trapping in all the water vapour.
00:21:52:10 - 00:22:06:06
Bronwyn
And when our buildings can't breathe, that water vapour will essentially condensate on the walls quite often or other building materials, and then it gets stuck there and that's when we get mouth growing.
00:22:06:08 - 00:22:12:09
Chris
Right. Yeah, that makes sense. How do you test for mould too, by the way?
00:22:12:11 - 00:22:55:15
Bronwyn
So we test for mould with a few different strategies. The main way we do it is with an air samples. So I've got a device that captures mould spores, and then we send that off to the lab and it gets tested. So is samples and there's also surface samples. But before we get to the sampling, as more testing technicians, including biologists, we do a really thorough visual inspection first and then learning about the occupant behaviour because the issue and you know how to fix it stems from those factors and the testing is, is a small part of it.
00:22:55:17 - 00:23:04:09
Bronwyn
It gives us a lot of data on how to move forward with it. But we need to look at the whole building and how the occupants are using the space holistically.
00:23:04:11 - 00:23:16:03
Chris
That's that's super interesting. What sort of behaviours do occupants have that can contribute to, to mould growth?
00:23:16:05 - 00:23:43:06
Bronwyn
There are many things that yeah, I guess I'll go with what I was saying before about the, the type buildings. So first of all, we've got the airtight buildings and the biggest thing I was saying with those is people are simply not opening their windows. They think we need to have them closed all the time to keep all the heat in because, you know, you just wasted it If you don't open the windows.
00:23:43:08 - 00:24:07:20
Bronwyn
But opening windows every day for 5 to 60 minutes is really important to get fresh air coming in to get the water vapour out, get the other noxious gases out. For example, people with gas stoves are putting noxious gases into their breathing space and we need to ventilate that out. So ventilation is a huge part of the mould issue.
00:24:07:22 - 00:24:21:06
Filly
And can I just jump in just to reinforce what you said, because I'm thinking about, it's so cold in winter time, do you really want all your windows open? You only need to have your window open 5 minutes a day in your room.
00:24:21:07 - 00:24:39:10
Bronwyn
At a minimum. Yeah, somewhere between five and 60 people. The home and the fence. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. So I think in Tasmania where you're hearing puffer jackets, we can put on a jacket for, for half an hour or so to ventilate the space and have that fresh air coming in.
00:24:39:12 - 00:24:40:06
Filly
Yeah, that's.
00:24:40:06 - 00:25:06:14
Bronwyn
Cool. Yeah. So some of the other things I say are people doing keeping on ventilation is they're not using the exhaust fans properly. So they're not using the exhaust fan while cooking or having a shower. That is a massive source of moisture. Things like having dryers inside that really is pointing the finger there. So what do you guys?
00:25:06:19 - 00:25:12:06
Filly
I think it's pretty rare that sometimes it's like, well, have you not got a fan on? You've been in the shower for 40 minutes.
00:25:12:06 - 00:25:13:22
Chris
40 minutes, chef.
00:25:13:23 - 00:25:27:06
Bronwyn
What's especially very quaint, I feel like. Yeah. Now, now, you've been told by Bronwyn that putting the exhaust fan on is one of the best things you can do to keep going to the bathroom.
00:25:27:07 - 00:25:28:10
Filly
Maybe twice.
00:25:28:12 - 00:25:35:02
Chris
I feel like. I feel like you might have latched onto one time and then that might have been an accident.
00:25:35:04 - 00:26:03:17
Bronwyn
Maybe. Maybe a very good so and the other one other thing is clothes dryers. I see people who have clothes dryers, just that just vent into the laundry. And you can imagine like a load of washing can hold somewhere between 4 to 8 litres of water. So if you're putting your clothes in the dryer, that's eight litres of water vapour going into that space.
00:26:03:19 - 00:26:33:22
Bronwyn
So ventilating laundries, making sure you've got an appropriate dryer for your space is very important and there are ways to fix that as well. And we've also got things like, yeah, there's a lot of a lot of factors that come into it. And it really comes down to that. The, the, the building and the families living themselves.
00:26:33:22 - 00:26:36:23
Bronwyn
So but those are the main ones so good.
00:26:37:01 - 00:27:02:20
Chris
That that's really one more question. So our brother in law is an architect and I know he talks about humanising spaces and really getting an indication of where the property is and and how it's laid out. And and so now, now I've heard from you and then I've heard from my brother in law, Jaron, about you know, these they say I get it.
00:27:02:22 - 00:27:26:21
Chris
That makes so much sense to me on, on why why so but also why some people try and skimp on cost building affordability. I can understand, like with the with the affordability of houses why people would would see cost of of consultation and and planning and dislike that they might not see the value that will happen later on down the track.
00:27:26:21 - 00:27:36:20
Chris
I don't have to worry about that. But but you're saying what was it, 40% of new builds have any have a a mould issue coming in.
00:27:36:22 - 00:27:39:08
Bronwyn
That's right. Yeah.
00:27:39:10 - 00:28:02:10
Filly
Well I kind of think about it's sort of like the food industry too. So you could buy a $2 worth of white crappy bread or you could buy a $15 loaf of primaloft identity of grain free or good nutrient bread. And so sometimes, yeah, people don't see the value in that. It's just like, this is cheap too.
00:28:02:10 - 00:28:07:08
Filly
I just do that. If I get issues down the track, I'll deal with it. Then when it's like, well.
00:28:07:10 - 00:28:08:04
Bronwyn
It could be.
00:28:08:04 - 00:28:10:16
Filly
Even more expensive when we get to that point.
00:28:10:16 - 00:28:15:07
Chris
What's it cost you to not consider this? You know.
00:28:15:09 - 00:28:49:23
Bronwyn
That's right. And yeah, I think people stand to what these issues can lead to. So, you know, we make to cut costs now, but also just going for more energy efficient buildings when arguably they're not helping the mould situation. You know, if we don't address the mould issue early, it can be either a five figure bill. I've even seen bills in the six figures in extreme cases, seven figures to fix, fix water damage and mould issues.
00:28:49:23 - 00:29:16:08
Bronwyn
So yeah, it's it's the water vapour internally, but it's also how the building is designed on the outside. So I'm saying a lot of buildings with flat roofs that are leaking. Wow. And that is a huge issue to fix because you can imagine a flat roof. It's the guttering system. And you know, to make a pitched roof on top to get rid of the situation, that it's very expensive.
00:29:16:10 - 00:29:48:16
Bronwyn
And being a roof, the water infiltrates through the entire building in some situation. So, yeah, there are a few design issues as well. So yeah, but a quarter of homes is extreme and I wish more people would address this before designing a home and I wish more people would consult a building biologist or an architect or a building designer who is aware of water damage issues down the line, especially as we experience more extreme weather patterns as well.
00:29:48:18 - 00:29:57:02
Bronwyn
I only see this becoming an increasing, increasingly serious issue. Yeah, awesome.
00:29:57:04 - 00:30:22:23
Filly
So this whole lighting is so much so. So when when we have new clients, I'll do an initial consult fast or I'm getting a thorough case history. And one of the questions that we have in our assessments is do you have mould in the home? A lot of people are like, no. Or yes, sometimes I'll have some on the windowsill, but I just wipe that away.
00:30:23:01 - 00:30:36:06
Filly
So it's not always visible to like the occupant, is it? Where is some hidden hidden mould? Places like common common places mould grows. That's actually quite hidden.
00:30:36:08 - 00:31:02:04
Bronwyn
That is a great question. And first of all, I love that you ask a question about mould in the homes. Do you mind if I make a recommendation for your question? Yeah. Can I recommend that you ask something more like have you had any previous water damage? Because that can indicate a mould issue. And then also, are there any damp musty organisms in the home?
00:31:02:08 - 00:31:31:20
Bronwyn
Yeah, because I mean if you have that smell, it can also be an indicator and then another follow on questions, that is, do your friends and family notice the smell when they come to your home? Because people get used to the smell of their own home and then don't don't notice. So, you know, sometimes the small changes you don't really notice over time because they're so neat, so yeah, they're really good questions because, yes, mould can be invisible.
00:31:31:22 - 00:31:56:13
Bronwyn
And I see that a lot. For example, I had one client back in January who had water damage and they just wanted to make sure the house was safe, that they had a little child and they just wanted to make sure it was okay and they had no visible mould. Like I said, they just had a leak which was coming from a window when they'd done some renovations and just wanted to make sure it was okay.
00:31:56:15 - 00:32:25:22
Bronwyn
And from my visual inspection I didn't see much. That was an indicator that there was mould. They had a small water stain on the carpet, which, you know, sometimes can not lead to serious mould growth, but sometimes it can. And I did the air sampling testing from this place and it came back with extreme levels. I think from memory it was about 80,000 spores per metres cubed.
00:32:25:22 - 00:32:45:06
Bronwyn
When our guidelines say for a healthy living environment, the number of mould spores per minute cubed should be under 500. And so we can see this mode. Yeah, this is how bad visible sorry invisible mould can be. So where.
00:32:45:06 - 00:32:46:16
Filly
Was it?
00:32:46:18 - 00:33:11:11
Bronwyn
So it was in the carpet and it was also coming from under the subfloor, which is a very common issue I see in Tassie. So we have subfloor spaces or crawl spaces which some people in the mainland provide, but that is which is somewhere between 30 to Amada sorry, 30 centimetres to a metre in height of a space underneath the floor, between the floor and the soil.
00:33:11:12 - 00:33:34:01
Bronwyn
And I say quite often a lot of moisture ingress happening in that space and as soon as it's moisture sitting in there in a high enough level, we're going to get mould growing. And then with the natural floors of the building, especially if you've got floorboards or particleboard flooring with carpet on top, that moisture and the mould spores are going to make their way up into the living space.
00:33:34:03 - 00:34:04:19
Bronwyn
So that is a huge source of invisible mould, especially in Tassie. So yeah, we've got the subfloor spaces, we've got walls, we've got the building materials. Sometimes furniture can be contaminated, especially if someone's moved from a previously water damage building and brought their furniture with them. So things like couches and mattresses are quite notorious for having high mould levels.
00:34:04:21 - 00:34:11:19
Chris
I just smiled, like for mattresses. Like. Like is that like a big thing?
00:34:11:21 - 00:34:30:10
Bronwyn
Yeah. And mattresses I find are big source of health issues. So first of all, we've got mould which can be exacerbated because, you know, every night relying in there for at least 8 hours, we're getting high humidity levels because, you know, we naturally perspire when we're sleeping.
00:34:30:12 - 00:34:38:21
Filly
I drew Yes, sorry, March when I sleep, I probably need to change my pillow every week, I reckon. Now I'm getting a new pillow every week.
00:34:38:23 - 00:34:39:10
Chris
Like.
00:34:39:12 - 00:35:10:13
Bronwyn
yeah, but it's true. Can it can contribute probably less so than sweating in your mattress, but it can be a thing. And with that increased humidity in our beds, that can lead to more growth, but it can also lead to dust mites. And I see quite a few, especially smaller children who experienced morning sneezes and fatigue, which goes away in the afternoon.
00:35:10:13 - 00:35:23:01
Bronwyn
Quite often that can be dust mites and mattresses are a big export of that. So that's quite interesting and something for everyone to look out for. Yeah, I had a client.
00:35:23:01 - 00:35:51:01
Filly
She had a lot of allergy type market symptoms showing. So sneezing, itchy, kind of like very histamine type symptoms and even before she met with us for the very first time, she just had a feeling that maybe she needed to put all her plants outside. And she had, like, a whole her whole house was a forest. And when she put all the plants outside, her symptoms probably got like 50% better.
00:35:51:03 - 00:35:55:00
Filly
So plant says, Well.
00:35:55:02 - 00:36:20:16
Bronwyn
Yeah, that's interesting. Mode can be in the soil of plants. I guess there's so many things that can trigger allergies in plants like the pull its from flowers and the things in the soil as well. So fertilisers contain a high level of mould and microbes because that's what design are designed to, to, to break down and compost things.
00:36:20:16 - 00:36:48:07
Bronwyn
So yeah, plants are often a source, especially when people overwater them or use old potting mix, for example, that just has an overgrowth of certain kinds of moulds and bacteria in them. And, you know, some people might say like a white fluff on top of their the soil of their plants. Yeah, that's probably from old old potting mix or overwatering.
00:36:48:07 - 00:37:04:18
Bronwyn
So that can be an issue in terms of mould illness. I haven't seen it a very high number of times. It's quite rare, but with allergy markers I can see that. Yeah, potentially could be mould, it could be the pollen.
00:37:04:20 - 00:37:05:15
Chris
Wow.
00:37:05:17 - 00:37:06:22
Filly
What about the interesting thing?
00:37:06:22 - 00:37:10:21
Bronwyn
What, what markers were found? Yeah.
00:37:10:23 - 00:37:23:12
Filly
What about things like aircon heat pumps, even like car when you put the fan on and it's like blowing in your face? Is that can that be a hidden source as well?
00:37:23:14 - 00:37:51:16
Bronwyn
Yes. Air conditioners, cars, heat pumps. They can be sources of mould. And one of the big reasons that they do hobble or mould growth is because some of the systems actually work through condensation. So a lot of air conditioning units will pull the heat out of the air through condensation. And so you can imagine you've got moisture building up in the the back of the device and in the pipes.
00:37:51:18 - 00:38:21:21
Bronwyn
And then when you turn them on, all of that mould and mould spores becomes airborne and then it comes into our breathing space, which is not ideal. So I do recommend a heat pump clean with a full flush every year or at a change of every season. So people will say, here I clean my heat pump, I get the vacuum and I clean the a little flap at the top that you lift up and I vacuum that.
00:38:21:23 - 00:38:49:04
Bronwyn
But I need people to dig a little bit deeper, grab torches and put the lot up inside the barrel. Fan So the area that the air comes out of the device and have a look what's there we want that to be. What if it's got any dots, any dust in it? You know, it's due for a clean. So those heat pumps and the reverse cycle split system for the people not in Tasmania, that would be like what is the heat pump?
00:38:49:06 - 00:39:30:00
Bronwyn
And then we have other forms of heating and ventilation like central, you know, HIV systems for example I hate recovery ventilation systems and other forms of food building ventilation, which I often say also with high levels of mould, especially when the pipes aren't insulated properly because again, we're going to get condensation happening. So if you pull the warm air up from a living space and then you put it into the ceiling, whether the pipework is most of it, and then the ceiling cavity is cold and the the ductwork has a metal surface, we see condensation happening in there.
00:39:30:00 - 00:39:40:19
Bronwyn
So you can imagine with the dust is the food source of the mould and the moisture encouraging it. We're going to get mould growth in those systems as well. Yeah.
00:39:40:21 - 00:39:44:02
Filly
My mum, they're gonna put the torch up next to our air.
00:39:44:08 - 00:39:49:00
Chris
You won't be out of reach. That's the Christian.
00:39:49:02 - 00:40:07:03
Filly
Okay. What about treating mould? So does someone have to, like, completely pull up carpet and walls and renovated it, or is there things that people can do either like for the occupant to surface level, clean it or that just doesn't do the job?
00:40:07:05 - 00:40:39:22
Bronwyn
So my answer to this is it depends how you clean mode really depends on the extent of the damage of the water damage and the extent of the mould growth and also what material it's on. So part of my job as a multisite technician is to determine the condition of a space. So condition one, two and three, which without going too much into the nitty gritty, it basically writes the space on, you know, whether it's a normal fungal ecology because mould is everywhere.
00:40:39:22 - 00:41:08:14
Bronwyn
So we expect to see some old at a safe level that would be condition one right down to condition three, where it is where you've got active fungal growth with, you know, maybe long, long, long standing moisture and water damage. And that's that's the worst essentially. So if you have a condition two, which is inactive, more growth, maybe the mould has come from an adjacent room and settled in the next room.
00:41:08:16 - 00:41:32:06
Bronwyn
The cleaning procedure is different. So but for your listeners who maybe have like mould on the on the bathroom wall, for example, or in the shower, that's a common one. So in the shower recess, perhaps on the tiles or the grout, I hear a lot of people using treatments like mould treatment or bleach or vinegar or clove oil as well.
00:41:32:08 - 00:41:59:18
Bronwyn
My recommendation is to not use any of those, surprisingly. And the reason for that is because a lot of these solutions that kill the mould, yes, it may stop the mould growing, so you won't get any more mould in the short term. The issue is, is the mould spores which are what actually contain the mycotoxins, which is what make you sick.
00:41:59:20 - 00:42:27:04
Bronwyn
They still exist there and they become airborne. You'll still be breathing them in and you'll be exposing yourself to those with the risk of getting sick. So there's the potential. The health risk is still there. But the other reason is you've temporarily cured it. But as soon as moisture is reintroduced, so the next time you have a shower, those mould spores are still going to be there and they remain intact.
00:42:27:06 - 00:42:31:16
Bronwyn
So when the moisture is reintroduced, they start growing again.
00:42:31:18 - 00:42:33:22
Filly
Yeah. So what's how do you.
00:42:33:22 - 00:42:37:04
Bronwyn
Make three so.
00:42:37:09 - 00:42:40:20
Filly
How, what would you recommend to clean it with then.
00:42:40:22 - 00:43:24:00
Bronwyn
Yeah. So my cleaning recommendations are always on removal, so there are ways you can remove it. So with the the extreme sticking with the bathroom an example right. I recommend some I get rid of all the grime on other surfaces like say you know, some furniture on surfaces like on top of tables and things you can use microfiber cloth and they are amazing at picking up the mould spores instead of just using a cotton cloth, for example, which will simply push the dust aside.
00:43:24:00 - 00:43:55:01
Bronwyn
So the dust and the mould will still be in your home. The microfiber cloth will actually pick that and remove it and remove. So using a damp microfiber cloth can be a really great way of cleaning the surfaces that don't have serious water damage issues. So then the next level is when a material has water damage. So for example, a wall that's been getting condensation for years and years and years and the mould keeps coming back.
00:43:55:03 - 00:44:17:14
Bronwyn
How we cleaned that is quite different and I would recommend a professional to claim that, first of all, because you're going to be exposing yourself to a high level of mould. If it's in your wall, it's going to be a lot and you don't want to be that airborne without putting the right safety procedures in place, potentially a containment or using the right devices.
00:44:17:16 - 00:44:44:01
Bronwyn
So yeah, it's it can be quite involved. And the next level again is removing the materials. So you say a lot of homes that have had flood damage, for example, you say they've got like the plasterboard cut out, you know, halfway up the wall and that's because the level of contamination is so high that you can't actually clean the material.
00:44:44:03 - 00:45:09:22
Bronwyn
And this is where testing is extremely important. So we can work out the level of contamination and what needs to come out and the appropriate cleaning method. So yeah, it's not an easy answer, but Basically, I don't recommend trying to kill the mould with any solutions for removal. Is the key. Always. Yeah. Cool.
00:45:09:22 - 00:45:24:22
Filly
I love that you have been always so generous with like so many insights. Mythbusters as well as some really cool practical tips. So we're so grateful for you coming on our show. Chris has got a lot of nights.
00:45:24:22 - 00:45:25:13
Chris
Yeah, let's.
00:45:25:14 - 00:45:29:02
Filly
He's going to start doing some like really good prevention cleaning, aren't you?
00:45:29:06 - 00:45:31:20
Chris
Am I? Yeah, I think. Yeah.
00:45:31:22 - 00:45:34:14
Bronwyn
I might say that. So much information.
00:45:34:19 - 00:45:45:00
Chris
Yeah. My big question, Bronwyn, is how can people who are listening get in touch with you and how can you help?
00:45:45:02 - 00:45:49:10
Filly
And you've also got a really cool checklist, a mould prevention checklist.
00:45:49:13 - 00:45:50:17
Bronwyn
And do you have another.
00:45:50:19 - 00:45:52:10
Filly
One to download?
00:45:52:10 - 00:46:21:10
Bronwyn
So yeah. So if you go to mould testing dot net, which is my website, you can find a list of my on there and I offer in-person consultations. The best way to approach this is have me come to your home to investigate it thoroughly because just like healing boarding burn out is complicated and it is so much more than just looking at the the mould on the wall.
00:46:21:12 - 00:46:44:01
Bronwyn
So having me come to your home, we can do that if you are elsewhere in Australia, I can do an online consult and for anyone who may just be interested in yeah, preventing mould growth in their home, I do have a checklist. It's really sad. So head over to mould testing dot net slash checklist and you can get that one there.
00:46:44:01 - 00:46:58:18
Bronwyn
So I've put together a list of of things that you can easily implement yourself to help prevent, you know, getting sick from both. Yeah. So you're good.
00:46:58:19 - 00:47:05:08
Chris
beautiful. So thanks, Bronwyn, for coming on to the show. I got so much information.
00:47:05:08 - 00:47:07:07
Bronwyn
Thank you much for having me.
00:47:07:08 - 00:47:16:22
Chris
Legend Thanks everybody for joining us for this episode. We look forward to having you on the next one.
00:47:17:00 - 00:47:27:02
Filly
Thank you so much for listening. We so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love. By sharing this episode.
00:47:27:04 - 00:47:45:11
Chris
You can also write your own state of burnout and the root Cause contributors by taking out ending body burnout assessment on our website. And if you're interested in learning about our group one on one ending body burnout programs, shoot us a DM via Instagram or Facebook. Have the best day ever.
