00:00:03:07 - 00:00:16:23
Chris
Hello and welcome to the ending Body Burn Out Show. We are your host, Chris and Filly co-founders of a multi-award-winning winning functional medicine practice, serving busy people with energy, mood and gut issues.
00:00:17:00 - 00:00:24:21
Filly
While busyness, addictive doing, people pleasing and perfectionism might be the norm, it's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
00:00:25:00 - 00:00:38:05
Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic root, root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplements hoping something might stick.
00:00:38:05 - 00:00:46:07
Filly
Sorry, get ready to heal your body, get your spark back deeply, connect with yourself and step into the life of your dreams.
00:00:46:10 - 00:00:55:10
Chris
Let's dive in.
00:00:55:12 - 00:01:23:13
Filly
Hello. We are so excited to share this potty today. So Chris and I, this is Filly. Just had a conversation session with Dr. Jodie Richardson to talk about all things anxiety. So anxiety is a very common symptom we see in those with body burn out. It's very intermingled with mood issues and our physiology affects our psychology and vice versa.
00:01:23:15 - 00:02:01:20
Filly
And so we were really excited to get Dr. Jodie onto our show to pick her brains about both her personal and professional experience with ending the struggle with anxiety. So you're going to love this conversation. And she's also just the most beautiful and kind and down to earth soul who is not only incredibly intelligent, she's done a Ph.D. around physiology and anxiety, but also a just someone that you you can feel really connected to.
00:02:01:22 - 00:02:31:15
Filly
So Dr. Jodie Richardson, her official bio is one of Australia's leaders in managing anxiety and amplifying wellbeing. She's a professional speaker, supporting schools and workplaces, and is the bestselling author of Anxious Kids and Anxious Mums. Both of these books have been translated into multiple languages and she's also the award winning host of the Positive Media podcast. Well, Hello Anxiety.
00:02:31:17 - 00:02:44:09
Filly
She's the happily married mom of two teenagers, a border collie, Dusty and three chickens. So let's dive into today's convo all about anxiety.
00:02:44:11 - 00:03:00:10
Chris
All right, guys, welcome to this episode. West Super excited to have with us Jodi And are we going to have a really good conversation today? Why don't we dive on in and and we'll get this one started?
00:03:00:13 - 00:03:18:16
Filly
Yeah, Without gas, we always love to just get nitty gritty and personal. And I know that you have a pretty incredible story, too, in terms of how you got into the anxiety space. So are you happy to to share with us why? Why why are you specialising in anxiety?
00:03:18:18 - 00:03:41:05
Jodi
I am. And what I find is a lot of people who sort of he may talk about or hear anyone talk about their anxiety journey can often really relate because so much of adult anxiety starts in childhood. And so yes, that was absolutely the case for me. I was a four year old after school back in the late seventies and heading up to the school and really excited to begin with.
00:03:41:05 - 00:04:04:11
Jodi
That was in an environment that was quite stressful for my teachers, and the contagious nature of stress kind of really was a difficult experience for me, and my little nervous system didn't like it very much. And so for my my four year old brain that was sort of felt quite threatening. Obviously. I know all this now. I certainly did not know it then.
00:04:04:13 - 00:04:24:12
Jodi
All I knew was that school made me feel sick in the tummy and I would come home from school every day and say, Mom, I don't want to go. And I'd wake up in the morning and I still don't want to go. Thankfully, she would send me the anxiety, I guess, that I still live with now at 49 is that that's where it all began.
00:04:24:14 - 00:04:55:18
Jodi
And it's not I mean, everybody everybody has experiences, anxiety, of course, it's very, very normal. And at that stage, it wasn't really getting in the way of my life. And so it did. Eventually, I went through high school, still with an undiagnosed anxiety disorder, very highly driven, perfectionistic, and worked really hard type. I just really wanted to do the very best I could in everything, put a lot of pressure on myself and played a lot of high level netball and had a lot of trouble breathing.
00:04:55:18 - 00:05:24:20
Jodi
Breathing was a really big symptom for me and I got diagnosed with asthma by my GP. Even the GP didn't really kind of get what was happening, but ultimately my undiagnosed anxiety in my mid twenties culminated in major depressive disorder where my nervous system was basically saying I cannot do this any longer. And so we're going to go into shutdown and I have the academic kind of an intellectual understanding of it now.
00:05:24:20 - 00:05:49:15
Jodi
But back then it was just indescribably hard. And I did not care if I didn't wake up the next day. That was just how hopeless and sad and difficult that time of my life was. But it was a turning point because I knew something was wrong. When I had depression, I went and sought help and ultimately got diagnosed with chronic anxiety and the depression.
00:05:49:15 - 00:06:08:14
Jodi
I moved through and healed from that. And then anxiety still is with me that I bring it with me wherever I go. I don't have much of a choice, but yeah, it's been a real problem in the past. I'm medicated for it, but that just really enables me to use my skills. And so I like to say I thrive with anxiety.
00:06:08:14 - 00:06:33:04
Filly
Now I'm a lot of what you just said reminds me of my experience as a little girl too. I remember a real pivotal, defining moment that is just a searing memory in my mind is first day of kindergarten shutting my door in my bedroom, wearing this blue top with an umbrella and rain falling on it and just crying my little heart out.
00:06:33:04 - 00:06:51:01
Filly
I'm like, I don't want to go to school. I'm too scared. And I can't remember school. Actually being that scary. But just the thought of being out into a social environment away from my mum and dad and my siblings with a law firm, I nervous system too.
00:06:51:03 - 00:06:51:19
Jodi
Yeah.
00:06:51:21 - 00:06:55:14
Filly
Then you know, it just becomes this snowball over time.
00:06:55:16 - 00:07:18:23
Jodi
It really does it that uncertainty, it's that change. I don't know what to expect and and and it's threatening. It is threatening. And some of us have nervous systems that are a bit more primed that way. I have a mum who has severe and a severe anxiety disorder and it's certainly genetic, you know, for a lot of people and not for everybody.
00:07:18:23 - 00:07:50:00
Jodi
But I guess like anything in your genes, if there's the situation of the environment or the trigger, then then we can start to experience the challenges that that brings with it. And I guess growing up in a home with a highly anxious parent as well can be challenging as well because you don't necessarily or even though Mum was so beautiful and loving, I adore her and I speak about her with permission.
00:07:50:02 - 00:08:01:05
Jodi
It's it's tough when you are also whether it's conscious or not mindful of how somebody else is experiencing life in the house, the living.
00:08:01:06 - 00:08:23:07
Filly
Room with hindsight, with everything that you now know, because we in our practice and I guess the show as well, we're always digging, digging, digging deep into the deepest root cause. What actually is causing this or cause this? What do you feel like is the deeper root cause of your anxiety?
00:08:23:09 - 00:08:43:21
Jodi
Well, I've spent a lot of time digging myself. Let me tell you, I've had a lot of therapy. And I, I think for a long time I felt like there has to be something that happened to me. There was there must have been an incident. There must have been an event. And that's not the case. That's not the case for me.
00:08:43:21 - 00:09:19:12
Jodi
It's for me. It's having inherited the predisposition for anxiety, then growing up in a hard with a mum who is highly anxious, quite reactive, and that's really hard for her looking back, really, really hard for her looking back and then I guess being in that environment school where I felt that it was, you know, threatening in a way in that just that the yelling, the tension, the, the way the teachers was in the class with 53, I was in a double prep class with two teachers.
00:09:19:14 - 00:09:43:05
Jodi
And so that was really, really tough. I had those I mean, all classrooms with the concertina sort of panels, they were always open. And yeah, so I think it was a combination of the sensitivity to it and temperament as well. Of course, there's my my temperament as a sensitive child plays into that. I certainly wasn't shy that complained a lot.
00:09:43:05 - 00:10:10:03
Jodi
That was my case. So, yeah, there there are a lot of factors that I think have really contributed. And then I just became very, very aware that over time that my body just didn't feel good. I couldn't breathe. I could sense all of the physical symptoms and the way my body was responding. And so I knew I knew I was having these challenges.
00:10:10:03 - 00:10:37:20
Jodi
I had no idea what was causing it. But the propensity for this cycle of my body feels anxious. I don't know what's wrong, what's wrong with me driving more anxiety and just stuck in these cycles of worry and anxious physiology. For two decades was kind of, I guess, what ultimately brought me to the work I do. There's another two decades between then and now.
00:10:37:22 - 00:11:05:15
Jodi
But yeah, in terms of the absolute root cause, I spent a lot of time trying to, you know, uncover that and ultimately arrived at the fact that it's just it's just a combination of contributing factors, you know, that have led me to where I am, but so, so grateful now because of the work that I can do to make a difference in other kids and other families lives because of what I've been through, I suppose.
00:11:05:17 - 00:11:07:18
Jodi
Am the.
00:11:07:18 - 00:11:12:22
Filly
Gift. Yes, I say that your message is your message.
00:11:13:00 - 00:11:21:22
Jodi
Well, that's new. I hear music is research and we make work from our brains. But I like that. I like that the most. I think.
00:11:21:23 - 00:11:35:17
Filly
Sorry. Okay. So you specialise in things are in anxiety. We hear like a lot of people use the word I have anxiety. I'm feeling anxious. What's your, what's your definition of of anxiety?
00:11:35:19 - 00:11:59:17
Jodi
So when I talk about anxiety, I love for people to know that it is it's the way our brain and our body respond in anticipation of something going wrong or anticipation of a threat. And so I love to talk about the physiology because it's we think about anxiety and we think about I need to see a psychologist. I need to work on my thinking on it, too.
00:11:59:18 - 00:12:41:04
Jodi
And of course, it's incredible, incredibly, incredibly powerful. But I think a piece that can be overlooked is this idea that we can grand our cells through our body and that not all anxiety is a disorder. In fact, most is just normal, everyday human responses to the uncertainties and the challenges and the opportunities that life throws our way. And so I love for people to know that, yes, anxiety is normal, that there's this continuum at one end, there's the anxiety you're going to feel when you get that phone call from school, you know, and you're not expecting it and you're like, something happened to one of the kids right through to the anxiety that made
00:12:41:04 - 00:13:02:18
Jodi
you can't leave the house. Obviously, that's a big problem. And so I love for people to know that it's completely normal if it's getting in the way of daily functioning, getting out of the house, meeting with friends, going to work, responding as a parent and being able to function well and live well, then yes, absolutely, help is needed.
00:13:02:23 - 00:13:21:19
Jodi
But for a lot of us, if we can learn about our physiology, learn about our anxious responses, so much that we can do to dial it down and be able to move forward and do all the things that we want to do and that life asks of us. We don't have to love our anxiety when it comes with us, but acceptance can play a huge part in us.
00:13:21:21 - 00:13:34:01
Jodi
Just ending the struggle with it, just dropping that rope like that metaphorical tug of war with things on. I'm just like, Let go of the rope. Anxiety is going to do its thing. You can do your thing to.
00:13:34:03 - 00:13:52:04
Filly
I love that we we talk about body burn out at ending body burn out in the symptoms that come from that often energy mood, gut issues, other inflammatory type issues. When we say that it's not we do not mean that you are symptom free.
00:13:52:04 - 00:13:53:03
Jodi
In health like.
00:13:53:03 - 00:13:54:03
Filly
In like.
00:13:54:05 - 00:13:55:07
Jodi
Happy.
00:13:55:07 - 00:14:20:22
Filly
All the time. 24 seven for the rest of your life. I mean, that would be lovely. But we're all human and we have this human experience. So the way you were describing your interpretation of or definition of anxiety makes a lot of sense that it's purely just the flat response from our nervous. Yeah. When we feel that there may be danger or uncertainty is often the bigger one uncertainty.
00:14:20:22 - 00:14:54:21
Filly
And sometimes it's real. Sometimes it's imagined. But it's still your response to the environment. And I mean, I'm someone who had struggled with debilitating anxiety, like to the point of panic attacks and that sort of stuff. And when I was going through my healing journey initially, I had this expectation that, I think I just I when I'm well, I'm going to be free from it all, just going to be healthy and happy.
00:14:54:23 - 00:15:18:01
Filly
But along the way, I've actually understood that these emotions and these feelings in my body is simply just messages. It's simply messages from the nervous system, the unconscious mind. And when you can learn to communicate to those, then you can actually have a lovely relationship with it. It's actually just keeping you safe, trying to keep you safe.
00:15:18:03 - 00:15:41:21
Jodi
That's right. And I remember you saying about your first experience and the T-shirt you're wearing, and I think that's it's quite a metaphor, isn't it, really? This this umbrella with the rain. And this is this is beautiful name. It's on my Instagram feed. I might read post it. And it's it's this idea. It's an umbrella with the rain and underneath it's like that, a sort of two part sort of the left and the right.
00:15:41:21 - 00:15:59:01
Jodi
And on the left it's got the umbrella with the right and on the right it's got the umbrella with the rain underneath the left umbrella. It says it's raining, it's awful, it's cold. I'm going to get wet. I hate this. I wish it would stop. I don't like this weather. I wish the sun would come out. And underneath the other one it says, Yep.
00:15:59:03 - 00:16:35:09
Jodi
And I hope people can create a mental picture of it. This idea that when when the rain comes, when we have those emotions like you say, that are messages that often are there to tell us something really important and if we can just go, yep, here and just have that willingness to listen and take on board the message, it can be so powerful for us in terms of our own personal growth, but also in our experience of what we feel because we try to stop the rain, the stick with the rainy metaphor.
00:16:35:12 - 00:16:53:22
Jodi
It we, we will when we can't. And eventually it's just things are going to flood when we can experience it. And I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but just this idea that if we can just live with this understanding that if all feelings are welcome, then they will move through, they will come and that will go like a visit.
00:16:54:01 - 00:17:14:15
Jodi
I don't hang around for a very even even joy. I often ask in my presentations, they'll say who's ever experienced joy and everyone puts their hand up and I'll I'll say, Put your hand up. Now, if that joy still with you. Nobody puts their hand up. And I'm very disappointed because I should be joyful in my company. I we see a bit of a lot of data.
00:17:14:17 - 00:17:23:15
Jodi
Why are you not filled with joy? And just to kind of highlight the idea that no matter what we feel, it comes and it goes. Even the good stuff.
00:17:23:16 - 00:17:26:12
Filly
Yeah.
00:17:26:14 - 00:17:54:06
Chris
I really like that. You mentioned before Jodie about grounding physiology, you know when, when you're feeling, when somebody is feeling that anxious physiology, is that what you, that's what you would recommend is like some sort of a grounding like just coming down. Would you be able to speak to that and what you mean by that?
00:17:54:08 - 00:18:25:06
Jodi
I would love to, Chris. I would love to get really passionate about physiology. That's what my Ph.D. was in physiology. I just love I just I get excited because of the opportunity that it brings for people. And so when we feel anxious and our brain has essentially detected a threat, and whether that threat is I'm about to do a podcast recording, which I love, I'm super comfy with, but for someone else, that would be terrifying.
00:18:25:08 - 00:18:43:14
Jodi
And my first podcast experience was terrifying and my amygdala was going, that is like, let's like the alarm is sounding. This is very threatening whether you're about to sit down and talk to people on a podcast which is not life threatening, or you get hit by a car, the brain in the body will respond in the same way.
00:18:43:16 - 00:19:09:14
Jodi
It's just it's pretty much an all or nothing response when that threat is detected. And most of the time, thankfully, we're safe and it's an opportunity, it's a challenge. It's something that's stretching us in our comfort zone. The alarm will sound and our brain and our body will respond because our body is like, if it's threatening the need to punch its lights out, beat it up, fight it or flee, we usually will flee first.
00:19:09:20 - 00:19:35:11
Jodi
If we cannot, will fight. Sometimes we phrase. And so for us to be able to fight the threat or run fast, so much has to happen in our physiology to enable us to be powerful in those moments. And so that's why our heart races, our breathing changes. We have glucose adapted to our blood. We have we sweat because the brain is like you're about to get very hot fighting off.
00:19:35:11 - 00:19:55:23
Jodi
We better turn on the cooling and let's move blood to the arms and the legs. You're going to need it to fight or run. So that's why the gut feels so. and that's a very scientific word. That one we get the nose, the nausea, and we get the digestive problems. And and of course, that's your area of expertise, not mine.
00:19:55:23 - 00:20:28:22
Jodi
But these challenges that we experience in our body when we feel anxious all makes so much sense. And so equally, we have this huge body response. We use our body to ground ourselves. And so movement, for example, if you struggle with anxiety plays, move every day, doesn't have to be anything that is super high intensity or super social.
00:20:28:22 - 00:20:49:22
Jodi
Just whatever you enjoy. Go for a walk with the dog, just skip in your own backyard or go and shoot some hoops at the local high school. Just do what you enjoy that that gets your body moving and that that's what the brain is expecting. Movement. The brain is expecting you to fight or run. So any movement will help bring that that response to an actual end.
00:20:50:00 - 00:21:17:22
Jodi
Another way we can grant and the system is is through shaking is through shaking our arms. And actually one fellow is doing it. His ring went flying. So be careful you don't lose anything precious. But and another way is through the breath. We're having this autonomic nervous system response is sympathetic nervous system response where we're not telling our heart to beat faster than telling these changes to happen.
00:21:17:22 - 00:21:41:17
Jodi
They're happening anyway. So what controlled we have over that? Well, the one thing we do have control over is our breath. We can't breathe slowly using our diaphragm and lengthening our exhale when we're in the middle of a very threatening situation. So by doing that, we're giving that feedback to the brain in the body to say, Hey, I'm safe, I'm okay.
00:21:41:19 - 00:22:24:16
Jodi
And so that there just a few examples of many and we don't need ten strategies. We just need to find one or two, maybe three that work depending on where we are. You might not want to shake it out when you're driving. You know, you might need something else. So yeah. So yeah, so yeah, the physiology and I think for adults listening, no matter who you are, if you are a parent as well, for us to help our kids to understand the way the body responds, the stress response, and so that there's this understanding and it takes a lot of the fear out of it, because a lot of what can happen with anxiety is
00:22:24:16 - 00:22:54:20
Jodi
that I feel and panic attacks and goodness, thank you for sharing that. That's been part of your journey. They are. It's really hard to describe major depression and it's really hard to describe a panic attack to someone who hasn't been through it. But essentially what happens is we develop these anxious systems with symptoms. We become very anxious about the anxiety and it drives it up and up and up into a panic attack.
00:22:54:22 - 00:23:17:00
Jodi
And so when we have a good understanding, this is anxiety, and that's why I call my podcast, Well, hello, anxiety. It's like colour your back. I can tell because my heart is racing. I can tell because my breathing changed. I recognise you and I know what I need to do next. It's so empowering. It's really powering.
00:23:17:01 - 00:23:54:06
Chris
That's really cool. I've just written down heaps of notes so my I often think like silly and it sounds like you to like come up with like real science knowledge bombs, all that sort of stuff. And I'm like the caveman version of stuff and I just really love how simple you just made that. Like your threat is Threats detected, you get anxious physiology and where you want to run, you want to fight, you want to just kind of freeze or whatever.
00:23:54:08 - 00:24:28:08
Chris
And so what that looks like is your heart races, like all that stuff you said just super, super clear. And then I love your I love your tips on on how to ground. I think some sometimes anxiety just sneaks up on you, doesn't it? It can happen when you're not expecting it like it could be driving. But then I have a lot of examples with people that I talk to at night, and it's when they're sleeping.
00:24:28:10 - 00:24:45:03
Chris
Do you have any tips for for that, like around sleep and anxiousness? Because then that that loop happens doesn't it's like, I should be sleeping like we talked about this the other day, Hey, I should be sleeping. And then you're anxious that you're anxious and it's just this it's like.
00:24:45:05 - 00:24:51:07
Filly
Then you're anxious about how you're not going to be able to perform tomorrow because you're not sleeping and you're, like, anxious because of.
00:24:51:07 - 00:25:18:18
Jodi
Like, the things that might happen because of that. Yes, it is. It's such a cycle. And then yes, it is. It's and it and that that's something that when it comes to our thinking is that worry can be both a cause and a symptom of anxiety. And and often at night it's like, everything stops and there's time and there's space and the brain's like, Well, here we go.
00:25:18:20 - 00:25:49:10
Jodi
All the things you haven't done or need to do, especially when there are lots of balls in the air, different times in people's lives and so there's a lot there are a lot of things that I can suggest. And and so, yes, so I'm just trying to think, where's a good place to start? I think a really powerful place to start is, at the end of your day, make a note of what you're going to come back to first thing tomorrow.
00:25:49:12 - 00:26:23:18
Jodi
This is if you're a working professional, if you're a domestic goddess and you have a million things to do, then I think I just know, I think and the research supports this, making a note of what's in our mind to getting it out of our head and onto paper frees up a lot of space. And I also encourage you, if you do hop into bed and this happened to me a couple of nights ago, I mean, the market, if anyone has a recommendation for me for one of those really beautiful sunrise alarm clocks.
00:26:23:20 - 00:26:42:12
Jodi
And so I'd like one of those. I've tried lots of alarm clocks because I do not want my phone by my bed at night, but the brightness has been a problem, so I'm just still in the market. So any recommendations Welcome. So I had my phone by my bed for my lunch. Not a super proud of. I don't recommend that, but I'm in the process of that change.
00:26:42:18 - 00:27:03:07
Jodi
However, I remembered something and I just immediately just set myself to a text message and then that was gone. I didn't have to think about that anymore, so better to write it down on it, to be on your phone at night if you can help it. When it comes to our sleeping habits, we do need a wind farm.
00:27:03:10 - 00:27:28:19
Jodi
We expect too much of ourselves if we're go, go, go, go, go driving the kids or whatever it is that you need to do in the evening. And then we might sit down and watch a bit of telly and were just like right ahead on the pillow and expect to fall asleep straight away. We need to show our body that sleep is coming and we need to take advantage of the, the way that our body works in relation to light as well.
00:27:28:19 - 00:27:48:17
Jodi
And so when the sun's going down, then that's a real signal through our eyes, through, you know, the changes in melatonin for that melatonin to continue to build as it has over the day. And so if we got we've got very bright light at night, we're going to start breaking down that melatonin and you're going to have less of that sleepy hormone to help you to to settle in.
00:27:48:18 - 00:28:14:01
Jodi
And aside from that, when you wake up in the morning, bright light straight away, if you can open those curtains, get outside, a little bit of sunshine is a signal to your brain to to to break down the rest of the melatonin in your body. And then you resetting for the start of the day so that you create this really lovely sort of body clock, regular sleep and wake will help.
00:28:14:03 - 00:28:34:02
Jodi
One of the thing is sleep hygiene in terms of the temperature of your room, darkness and having a wind down place, rage plays, read something fictional, not non-fiction. If you're a if you're a knowledge worker and you want to pick up that book just to sort of give you a few extra tips before bed, that will really just drive you to wake more.
00:28:34:02 - 00:29:03:06
Jodi
So choose a book that's fictional. And the very last thing that I want to share is this idea that when you are on the pillow, there's so much more. I could say sleep is just so powerful. It's such a cornerstone of mental health. But when your mind is starting to go to those ideas, those things that you haven't done or need to do or those worries, we if we can just recognise that our mind has wanted it, we've sort of been hooked.
00:29:03:06 - 00:29:37:20
Jodi
I like to kind of think about this idea of getting hooked and drawn away from the present moment. Thank you. Mind for doing. What minds do thank you for, you know, thanks mind. And then it's just about recognising you've drifted to that thought and returning your attention back to something that's helpful in that moment. And what I do, it's been really powerful for me is I start with I in the alphabet and I reflect on what I'm grateful for that day, starting with I and then I'll go to B, I really get past day one.
00:29:37:21 - 00:29:57:12
Jodi
I tried it with make some models of cars because I thought I'd try something completely different and see if I could test my memory. I got to have skipped a few. I struggled a bit. It was like awful to pick something, something that's relaxing. It's like, it's like it t or it. I'm like, this is this is Toyota, Toyota, Volvo.
00:29:57:13 - 00:30:23:16
Jodi
You know, there's so many. It's quite interesting. But I call the alphabet the gratitude alphabet. And it's wow, it's about attention. It's about where is our attention? And if our if our attention keeps wandering to something, we might need to get up and write that down. If we do need a break. If you're lying in bed for half an hour, then you could turn your attention to your breath.
00:30:23:18 - 00:30:48:22
Jodi
Or you could hop up, go somewhere with a dim light, read a book for a little bit longer, and sometimes talking books are helpful for people. Sometimes people need something to concentrate on. So there's so much around sleep when it comes to our mental health and anxiety. And it can be just so distressing to lie there awake, wishing you were asleep and relaxing.
00:30:49:00 - 00:31:05:19
Jodi
And I'd say again in the struggle and know that if your body's horizontal, your head is on your pillow and you can bring your attention to your breath, you are recharging, you are resting. Sleep will come when we stop forcing it. But easier said than done.
00:31:05:21 - 00:31:08:06
Chris
Holy smokes. Wow.
00:31:08:07 - 00:31:11:00
Filly
You love the alphabet. Gratitude.
00:31:11:02 - 00:31:12:00
Jodi
The alphabet.
00:31:12:01 - 00:31:16:00
Filly
He let it go for being so good.
00:31:16:02 - 00:31:18:03
Chris
I love it. Thank you so.
00:31:18:03 - 00:31:38:13
Filly
Much. As you were talking to, I was thinking about health anxiety as well, because a lot of our listeners are dealing with a bunch of health issues, some are very chronic, like going back decades of symptoms and all sorts of stuff. What are your thoughts around around that?
00:31:38:15 - 00:32:06:08
Jodi
My heart goes out. I've been there. I know what that is like. I know how sickening it can be to worry about your health or the health of someone you love. I really probably did need shares in the GP clinic when I became a mum because I was there every week with some minor ailment that I thought was terminal.
00:32:06:09 - 00:32:37:04
Jodi
But I really my mind had this whole body and mind belief that that this this is going to end very badly. And it's it's a really tough place to come from. So I want to say to your listeners, our listeners today, that it's it's really hard. It's a very common and what what I would say and this is a lot that we can do to to make a difference.
00:32:37:06 - 00:33:00:13
Jodi
I'll tell you what I did. This is this was before a lot of my extended professional development. But what I did certainly helped. And I'll tell you what I would do if if I were in those shoes that I was once in. Now. So what I did was I nominated two people. This is on the advice of my psychologist.
00:33:00:15 - 00:33:35:21
Jodi
I nominated two people who I really trusted that they loved and cared about me and my health, my safety, and were also sensible, realistic, would and not yet sensible and realistic would not ignore something that was really important, but would not overreact on something that was more on the minus it. And so when I was worried about something to do with one of the kids, one of those was my husband Peter, and one of those was my friend Christie.
00:33:35:23 - 00:33:43:09
Jodi
I know not Christie Goodwin, who is also another Christie. I didn't have the pleasure of knowing Christie back then when I was a new mum.
00:33:43:10 - 00:33:46:19
Filly
Christie Christie equipment being on our podcast, by the way.
00:33:46:20 - 00:34:11:22
Jodi
Yes, yes. She's she's just yeah, she's brilliant. Yeah. And I would say this is what's happening. This is what I'm concerned about. And what do you think? And I would there were a lot of times that prevented a trip to the GP and helped me enough, but I just didn't have I didn't have an understanding of my physiology then I was so caught up in post-natal depression and a lot of other challenges at the time.
00:34:11:22 - 00:34:48:00
Jodi
It was very, very messy, very difficult. What I would do, what I would say now is that when we have a worry, we often try to disprove it. If we're worried that we have a pain, for example, and we think, goodness, that could be something very serious. So of course we want to get checked out. No doubt anyone with health anxieties had plenty of visits to the GP and maybe a scan or two and plenty of kind of evidence to suggest that if there was something to be dealt with, it would be we'd be underway with that.
00:34:48:02 - 00:35:14:16
Jodi
So there is almost that evidence there for a lot of people. But when, when it comes back, pain comes back, the mind can go to that place. And what I would ask your listeners to consider asking themselves is not is it Katz or is it terminal or is it serious or is it life threatening or isn't it? The better question and a more helpful question is, is is this helpful?
00:35:14:18 - 00:35:44:15
Jodi
What I'm thinking and perhaps before that you could say, I notice I'm having the thought that this pain is going to become something that is life threatening awareness of what we're thinking. And I know this is deeply gut deep, very quickly. So I just stay there. Awareness of what we're thinking when we have anxiety is really tough. We very easily get hooked and really swept away by what we're thinking.
00:35:44:15 - 00:36:14:08
Jodi
We go down, we think it, and our whole body reacts as if it's the actual truth. In that moment, it's really, really hard place to be over time, as we bring more mindful moments into our days and we strengthen our mindfulness muscles, our ability to notice when we've been swept away by an unhelpful thought, we can bring our attention back into the present moment when we've got the skills which can take time to build.
00:36:14:09 - 00:36:40:13
Jodi
We can say, I notice I'm having the thought that this pain is life threatening. And what that does is just in that noticing that observation, I notice I'm having this thought. It helps you put a little bit of space between you and the thought that you're having. And then the next part you could say, Is this helpful? And sometimes it is helpful.
00:36:40:18 - 00:37:07:08
Jodi
Sometimes we could go, I notice a mole on my arm has changed. I'm having this thought that that could be a melanoma. Well, I should go and get that checked. Absolutely. Absolutely. But when it comes to anxiety, so much of what we think is not helpful, we ask ourselves, is it helpful? Know what would be helpful? Bring my attention back to what I was doing before my mind wandered.
00:37:07:10 - 00:37:32:11
Jodi
And that doesn't take away that that stomach dropping, sickening, clammy kind of feeling that can come over us. We have these worrying thoughts. It's quiet on the face of it. It's quite extraordinary that we can have a thought and it can trigger so much change. It's quite interesting. It's not much fun when you're in it. And so you can have that response and having a willingness to go.
00:37:32:12 - 00:38:04:18
Jodi
I'm feeling very anxious about this, but I'm willing to notice and observe that I'm feeling this way and ground myself knowing that it will pass. But there are a lot of steps I suppose, I shared and listeners can go back and and listen. But certainly if your health anxieties driving frequent, sickening, anxious responses, I really would like to see those listeners with some professional help along the way.
00:38:04:20 - 00:38:34:09
Jodi
And, you know, and for me, I couldn't get space, I could not get space, I said. And generalised anxiety have been very much part of my history I only took medication after our second child was born. I guess I kept thinking I could manage it myself in the same way that perhaps if you had diabetes, you think I can just.
00:38:34:09 - 00:39:01:21
Jodi
I can just think my way around these blood sugar challenges and eventually paid off. My husband, he said to me, I remember looking where we were, distinctly remember exactly where I was, because it's very hard for him multiple, multiple cycles every day, seeking reassurance and sharing anxious worries. And he said, I know you're working so hard. I know how hard you work, you know how how, how hard your trying.
00:39:01:21 - 00:39:30:16
Jodi
He said. I just want to ask you whether or not you consider trying something for your anxiety, not for you, but for the rest of the family. And it was the first time in a long time I got an understanding of how much what how I was living and operating was impacting everyone. And I immediately thought, wow, I could probably parent a lot differently.
00:39:30:18 - 00:40:04:15
Jodi
And the medication, what that's done because it doesn't get rid of your anxiety. We never get rid of it. We need it. It's protective, It's helpful in lots of ways, but it gives me enough space between my experience. Plus, I'm obviously very skilled now because of what I do for a living and my passion for this. It's just given me that space to be able to draw on a strategy, have a little bit of space to just think rather than just getting swept down a raging torrent of a river with no chance of ever getting to the to the bank.
00:40:04:17 - 00:40:26:09
Jodi
And so I share I share these ideas, but depends on where you are in your anxiety journey as to how readily you're able to put them into practice. And I certainly recommend if anxiety is a problem, if it's a challenge, if it's so much help, there's so much that we can do to make a really, really meaningful difference.
00:40:26:11 - 00:40:38:10
Chris
Wow, what a conversation it's been. Also, I've really enjoyed our time together. It's been really good. Did you do you have any questions you wanted to or things you wanted to close with?
00:40:38:10 - 00:41:02:11
Filly
Silly it were couple of things, actually. There was something that you were that you said. It's isn't it interesting or fascinating that we can have a thought, we can have this physiological reaction to it. I also think about like neuroscience and how the brain pain as well, depending on if we're feeling like we're in danger or threatened.
00:41:02:17 - 00:41:14:12
Filly
And so something that we also teach our clients as well when they're experiencing these like it, whether it's a real symptom or a worry around their body.
00:41:14:12 - 00:41:15:16
Jodi
Is.
00:41:15:18 - 00:41:29:19
Filly
Anchoring feelings of safety as well. And it reminded me of the gratitude alphabet as well. It's like, Hey, maybe that is enough to anchor that in to create a new sensation in your body.
00:41:29:21 - 00:42:01:02
Jodi
Yes. Yes. I love that you've come to this and the the idea of feeling at home in our body, in our NOVA system, that's a very foreign idea for a lot of people. But we can repair our NOVA system. We can obviously, you know, again, now we're singing from the same hymn book as they say. But yes. And and if you can't do that for yourself, somebody else could do that with you.
00:42:01:04 - 00:42:30:13
Jodi
And you can there as as you just suggested, There are there are ways that we can do that for ourselves. But other times we might need that co regulation. We are we are in our Navy system. We are built to connect and somebody around us. And I'm so thankful I've got Pete because he's been a pretty Pete means the rock and you know, he's been my rock and he's been able to share his calm.
00:42:30:15 - 00:43:00:05
Jodi
If you have a pet, it's a really beautiful thing to do. We don't have to stop what we're feeling, that we can allow ourselves to experience it. And in the company of a pet or a person or an opportunity to feel more psychological, safe and more more at home in ourselves, then the more we can train ourselves to experience that, the more we can shift ourselves from one nervous system state to another, which is probably a conversation for another time.
00:43:00:05 - 00:43:06:08
Jodi
But yes, it's really important. It's really important. I'm really glad you raised it. Really.
00:43:06:09 - 00:43:37:19
Filly
Okay, one last question, because we know that you love working with parents and children and teenagers and you were talking about car regulation. So parents are the biggest car regulators for their children. Yeah. What? What? Why? You love working with parents and children and any parents who are listening, What what advice would you have for them if they're noticing that their their kids and teenagers are experiencing anxiety?
00:43:37:21 - 00:44:03:00
Jodi
Thank you for this question. I love it because I know the difference it can make when we have more understanding. I know what I went through as an anxious kid and teen and young adults with no knowledge, no understanding, and just this feeling that I'm broken. There's something wrong with me. And it's not a very nice place to live from.
00:44:03:02 - 00:44:39:07
Jodi
And so I, I feel so passionate about the opportunities, particularly when I work with parents, because parents are the greatest influence on their children's mental health. We have so many opportunities. We have opportunities, you know, a plethora of them every day to make a really meaningful difference. Just little in little moments. It's not only one. It's not about sort of the firehose of information for them, but the opportunity parents have to make a really big difference for their children's mental health and their understanding of stress and anxiety is profound.
00:44:39:07 - 00:45:05:20
Jodi
So that's very exciting for me. And when I work with children, I speak with groups of year 11 and 12 students. And so that's the only work I do directly with young people, and that's all around understanding their physiology and just really making sure that they know that it's it's nothing to be afraid of. When we get anxious, we get anxious around the things we care about.
00:45:05:20 - 00:45:38:13
Jodi
We didn't care. There'd be no anxiety. It's like there's no anxiety for my children to empty the bins because, you know, it's not important. And yes, and so what would I love parents to know? I want you to know as parents, too, that it's a bigger issue than it's ever been, that if you are noticing that your child is experiencing anxiety, what a gift that you've noticed because it's a first step to getting it to change, I suppose.
00:45:38:13 - 00:45:59:20
Jodi
And to supporting them, even though it can be frightening to think, my child is feeling anxious or experiencing anxiety, what might this lead to? Especially Because if we have an anxious child, often we as the parent struggle with anxiety as well, so we can have that catastrophic thinking. What I want you to know as a parent is there.
00:45:59:22 - 00:46:24:11
Jodi
You don't have to do it all at once. But as you learn yourself about understanding sorry yourself about anxiety, the nervous system, how things operate, we shared a lot today, what you can do and how to really talk to any power your kids. Then the change that can come about can be profound. So there's so much hope and opportunity.
00:46:24:13 - 00:46:41:18
Jodi
And despite the fact that it can be frightening, if you have noticed anxiety in your child's life, it really is such a gift. What a gift that would have been for me as a little one, to have an adult in my life say, I know exactly what's happening and I'm going to work with you. Let's find out what to do.
00:46:41:20 - 00:46:47:17
Jodi
So had that happen now, we may not be talking today. I think I had to go through the mess to have a message.
00:46:47:21 - 00:46:49:15
Filly
Yeah, but.
00:46:49:17 - 00:46:56:15
Jodi
That's that's a better guess. But that the biggest and best thing I can share in the time that we've got for the parents who are listening.
00:46:56:15 - 00:47:00:13
Filly
Yeah. And you've got a new course coming out.
00:47:00:15 - 00:47:02:18
Jodi
I do. I do.
00:47:02:23 - 00:47:13:09
Filly
Well, hello, School anxiety program. Did you want to chat to the listeners listeners about that and also how they can get in touch with you if they want and more about what you do.
00:47:13:11 - 00:47:43:01
Jodi
thank you. Yes, I'm super excited because starting 16th Jan 2024, I have a live online four week course for parents for any child keen to kindergarten, primary school or secondary school with anxiety related to school. And that can be transitions. It can be changing campuses, it can be separating, it can be friendships, it can be academics, it can be changing schools, lots of things.
00:47:43:03 - 00:48:14:03
Jodi
And so I'm really I can't wait because up until now, my contact with parents has been, as a speaker, speaking to large groups of parents in schools or organisations. This way it's may and the parents who joined the course to work together over four weeks to really make a difference in their families. So yes, if you'd like to know more, just hit website Dr. Jodie Richardson dot com and it's Jodie with an idea Jo D with an I Richardson dot com so yeah thank you.
00:48:14:03 - 00:48:16:22
Jodi
Thanks for giving me a chance to share that with your listeners.
00:48:17:00 - 00:48:25:21
Filly
So cool Love it. Thank you so much. I could.
00:48:25:23 - 00:48:30:07
Jodi
I was going to talk like you.
00:48:30:13 - 00:48:37:23
Chris
So much for joining us today Jodie it's been so good. I have three pages of.
00:48:37:23 - 00:48:39:11
Jodi
Notes.
00:48:39:13 - 00:48:58:11
Chris
So I look forward to listening to this one again and absorbing some more stuff. But but thank you so much for coming on and thank you listeners for, for joining. Until next time catch is later have the best day ever.
00:48:58:13 - 00:49:08:16
Filly
Thank you so much for listening we so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love. By sharing this episode.
00:49:08:18 - 00:49:27:00
Chris
You can also write your own state of Burn and the Root Cause contributors by taking our ending body burn out assessment, our website. And if you're interested in learning about our group one on one ending Body burn out programs, shoot us a DM via Instagram or Facebook. Have the best day ever.
