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Chris
Hello and welcome to the ending Body Burn Out Show where your hosts Chris and Filly co-founders of multi award winning Functional Medicine Practice, serving busy people with energy, mood and gut issues.
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Filly
Well, busyness, overworking, addictive, doing and perfectionism might be the norm. It's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
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Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic route root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplements hoping something might stick.
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Filly
So get ready to heal your body, get your spot back deeply, connect with yourself and step into the life of your dreams. Let's dive in.
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Filly
Hello? It's Billy here on the ending potty burnout show. Today, we have a wonderful conversation with the amazing Jenna Hanley, who is a transformational coach. She is incredible. Chris and I have been following her on socials she had at nine years and years and years and always, always really resonated with her message. So you're going to find out about Gemma.
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Filly
But she has overcome some incredible things in her life. Chronic fatigue, anxiety, all sorts of things. And we our message, I feel like our message really aligns with with what Gemma does. So anyway, never met her, only knew her through socials and Instagram, but reached out to her because I thought her story was incredible and something that I feel like our audience is going to to really love and resonate with.
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Filly
So a bit about Gemma. So Gemma guides driven and high achieving women who struggle with anxiety, perfectionism and resistance to discover happiness, confidence and calm from within themselves. Her coaching strategy is heavily informed. Her own 23 year journey of holistically healing, panic attacks, anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts and chronic fatigue syndrome. Through her coaching work, Gemma is here to create a movement where every woman knows that painful emotions and a dysregulated nervous system is the body's communication system, asking her to pay attention to something that is deeply important to her, that her pain is not rung or here by chance.
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Filly
It's a signal of where she needs to come into deeper connection with herself. Okay, so let's dive into the conversation.
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Chris
All right. So thank you so much, Jennifer. Coming on to the ending body burn out show. Super stoked to have you here with us. You've got to incredible story. Let's let's dive in first question.
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Filly
Yeah. Yeah. So we find that most practitioners coaches ourselves included, when we come into this holistic healing space, it's usually from an embodiment, an overflow of our own body burn out experiences. And we've been following you for quite a while and you have an incredible story. So 23 years of debilitating anxiety and chronic fatigue, do you want to dive into that?
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Filly
Let's just like dive right into the deep end so everyone gets to know you intimately.
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Gemma
Of course. And thank you very much for asking me. Yeah, I'm an open book with like, is there somewhere you want to start on that?
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Filly
Or maybe what was happening in your life around that time? Yeah, and then, and then symptoms that were showing up for you that with warning signals, that is something's not quite right.
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Gemma
Yeah, it's an interesting one for me because I don't really ever remember a time where I felt, well, you know, if I go all the way back to even six years old and one of my memories with starting school, I missed my first two weeks of school because I was covered in chickenpox. And I remember that even going to school and like getting through the drop off and staying at school was such an anxiety ridden experience for me as well.
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Gemma
And so it was not really until my thirties that I had this contrast of what does health and vitality and vibrancy actually feel like? And so for me, you know, what was going on in my life, it was just this gradual build. It became far more intense, I would say, over a ten year period where, you know, I got to the point where I was blacking out from panic attacks, and the basics around living life were super challenging for me other than going to work and even in that environment was was really, really difficult and it was very physical and emotional.
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Gemma
So ultimately that culminated into a really painful and and difficult experience of chronic fatigue syndrome, where I couldn't work at all. I was completely dependent on other people helping me and providing me with care, you know, sitting up in a wheelchair and going out of the home for half an hour was a good day for me, because even just the stimuli and the strength to sit up and the stimulation of the noise and the bumpy path and whatnot was so much for my nervous system.
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Gemma
And yes, along the way my body was screaming at me, right? There was so many signs and so many opportunities for me to look at that as stress showing up in my body. So, you know, I had issues with my heart. I had pre-cancerous cells in my cervix. Yeah, My ex, my I had an adult acne. He got issues like constipation, bloating, so many food sensitivities and yeah, depression, anxiety.
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Gemma
There was just the longest list of symptoms. And I clearly really needed that long list before I was going to be willing to look at, you know, what is actually a priority. And I guess the answer to that question that I eventually became ready to look at was me like, I get to be a priority. I am a priority as opposed to all of these tick boxes and like societal imprinted milestones of life that I was just consistently and constantly striving towards.
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Filly
Yeah, yeah, sorry, intense and amazing. And our bodies are incredible to send us those signals. So you've done a lot of work on yourself and you work with a lot of people as well. Now, now with your wisdom and hindsight going right back to the beginning, what would you say was like the deepest root cause of what was going on with your health symptoms and like the mental health stuff as well?
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Gemma
Definitely. I feel the deepest root cause was emotional. Yeah. And that my physical symptoms stemmed from that because the body was just so am I know the system was so overstimulated that it couldn't cope. And I firmly believe that the body is always doing the best that it can with the situations it's facing, even though it definitely can feel otherwise on the surface.
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Gemma
And so ultimately, like what I would say, the root cause was if, you know, I had to give it some language, is that just this complete disconnect from myself and an inability to go in words, to understand how to meet my needs, how to listen to myself, how to trust myself. Yeah. And always looking outwards. And it was just a skill that I was not taught and like so many of us now.
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Filly
Yeah. So I'm curious because you said like even before the age of six, you noticed that there were, there were patterns showing up already. So what was going on, even as a little girl for you, do you think?
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Gemma
I think there was a lot of striving around perfectionism and, you know, knowing that I was good enough pleasing a desire to feel safe. And that was expressed through. Yeah, anxiousness, controlling, developing coping mechanisms that were like actually super intelligent and super productive for this little girls to be doing. Yeah, my dad travelled a lot for work and even when he was home, he yeah, it was so divided and committed in that role of provider and so often he would be gone before I would even be up for school and then wouldn't be home until bedtime and whatnot.
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Gemma
And so I think my nervous system felt that absence as well. Yeah, yeah.
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Filly
Yeah. Did you?
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Chris
Yeah, I, I, I just would love to ask you a question, Gemma, about something you just kind of alluded to before. You said in your thirties you became ready. So going from when you were a little girl and you were six into your thirties, and then you went from a, you know, striving for perfection and just this desire to feel safe, anxiety and, and adopting these coping mechanisms and brought up that story around, around your dad and that memory around him when you grew into your thirties and when you when you became, you know, older and wiser, what what do you think was some of the the reasons or things that that maybe got you
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Chris
ready or you felt ready to to to work on yourself? Could you speak to that a little bit? Yeah.
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Gemma
Great question. And before I jump into that, I want to speak to this safety, too, because I think, you know, something that I see in a lot of women and was definitely true for me too, is we're looking at what intellect really makes sense. What logically makes sense? What rationally makes sense. Yeah. And it's like, well, I'm living in a first world country.
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Gemma
I have what I need, like, for security, for safety. There's food on my table. Like my childhood wasn't that bad. And so when we go down that route of what safety means, we can feel really confused and feel really perplexed, which actually probably speaks to to the question you've asked me as well of like what needed to happen before I could become ready.
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Gemma
Whereas the felt sense and the nervous system response can be showing us something that's completely different. Yeah, and it's really easy to, I think, for us to dismiss that, to believe that it's wrong, to label it as inconvenient and bad, and to carry this narrative of I just like, you know, I need to be stronger, I just need to get on with this or, you know, there's plenty of other people that have worse situations than me.
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Gemma
And and to really deny that deeper level of that deeper feeling of uneasiness or yeah, I think uneasiness is a really great way to explain it. So when I reference that word safety, I'm not talking necessarily, although that is true for some people, but I'm not talking necessarily about like a logical, you know, tick box system of like where you are, where you're not safe.
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Gemma
And we know this from the nervous system of opening our inbox or going and doing something out of our comfort zone, right? Like probably the first time, you know, either of us recorded a podcast interview with someone, there was this feeling of like extreme nervousness and and safety in the body right? So, yeah, I just wanted to clarify that piece.
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Gemma
But to answer your question of like, what was it that when I got to sort of, you know, thirties was when I felt great. Yeah. And I felt like I was thriving and I felt confidence and I felt clarity. So it was probably like journeying through my late twenties where I was doing a lot of this foundational work.
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Gemma
I mean, like things had to get bad enough for me to become ready to, to look at it right and to really. And I also firmly believe to that we need to run the patterns that we've been offered from our primary caregivers or from those people that, you know, we downloaded all of our resources and knowledge and tools for life from.
00;13;47;13 - 00;14;15;07
Gemma
We need to run enough of those patterns and watch them not work for us before we'll be ready to realise, Oh, this is not a strategy problem. Like I don't need to have a better spreadsheet or I don't need to be more rigid with my morning routine. And you know, I don't need to find the more productive, efficient way to move through life right?
00;14;15;10 - 00;14;43;17
Gemma
Maybe there's actually some things to be felt here. And for me, my relationship with emotions with and vulnerability and sensitivity within myself was the better. I am at pushing that down and suppressing that and ignoring that and getting on with it. The more successful I am, the more intelligent I am, the more attractive and valuable I am as a person.
00;14;43;17 - 00;15;14;08
Gemma
And yeah, I had to run enough cycles of that to realise this is not working. Like this is not getting me to where I want to be. I do not feel happy and I do not feel energised and that that was the result. This ease, dysfunction, disharmony would just stack and stack and stack every time. I couldn't be real with myself and every time I tried to force myself into this scenario, into a version of me that just was not true.
00;15;14;13 - 00;15;18;09
Gemma
So what was happening internally? Yeah.
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Chris
So wow, that's awesome. As it's kind of I hear this a lot sometimes we hit a brick wall or we get into a slump or we can feel like there's no hope or this nihilistic view of the world. What's the point? And and ah, the more and more I notice people having these conversations of, Oh, this sucks, I should be this or I should be that, I have to this or I need to that and I there's worse people off in the world.
00;15;54;13 - 00;16;39;14
Chris
Why should I feel this way? And then we get into a little bit of a guilt and shame trip on our comparison analysis to others and I feel like the harder we hit the wall or the harder anyone hits a wall, there's actually a real beauty and and necessity to that. I think it's it's really hard to to pivot and change and and and take a take a look at the emotions and really embody what you're feeling if you haven't hit that wall and recognise, oh, I'm hitting a wall or this isn't working for me, it's, it's really it's not impossible, but it's hard to make a change in your life if you haven't recognised
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Chris
Bang, this is a wall. I'm not going anywhere.
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Gemma
And there's no, there's no further path forward with this.
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Chris
I'm damned. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. My progression has stopped. I'm not moving. I'm stagnant. Mm. I wonder if that's what that word means.
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Filly
Something you said earlier too about safety was a really common piece in my healing journey as well, that I got to a point where all the physical healing in the world could only get me so far. But I didn't know. Like I didn't know what else was happening down in the unconscious state, in the nervous system, because I had a beautiful upbringing.
00;17;21;11 - 00;17;43;28
Filly
It was like there was love and kindness and definitely no like big T trauma or anything like that. And so I was always just so confused and complex around like it. Maybe it is just a physical issue. Maybe I just have to keep doing more supplements and eating more perfectly and all that sort of stuff until I was able to stop breaking down.
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Filly
Oh, safety comes in so many ways. Like it's not just physically being threatened, it's also the fear of being rejected as a little girl or the fear of like the perfectionism side of things that I have to be good. I have to do all the things in order to get that love and like respect, appreciation from people around me.
00;18;08;12 - 00;18;28;11
Filly
Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. So important. So you've done well. Can we dig into. I'm curious what you did to heal like, did you just focus on the emotional side of things, or did you just go full on holistic, emotional, mental, psychological, energetic, unconscious, physical? What did you do.
00;18;28;11 - 00;19;05;01
Gemma
Three Definitely started down the conventional path first and was so so much in in search of that quick fix and magic pill. Right. Like my health was this annoying thing that would not get out of the way so that I could just get on ticking those boxes, right. And create this image of myself so that I could know I was successful and valuable, which was at that point in time, the best strategy I had for.
00;19;05;04 - 00;19;32;24
Gemma
Yeah, safety, certainty, significance, pleasing and impressing people so that I got to continue to be part of their life and receive their love. So my gosh, like over 18 different specialists and practitioners and like years and years of tests and just being told nothing's wrong with you and like nothing would show up on my blood.
00;19;32;24 - 00;19;37;22
Filly
So when you say specialists, are you talking about like you went down the allopathic.
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Gemma
Psych.
00;19;38;07 - 00;19;42;00
Filly
Modern medicine route or you were doing functional medicine stuff as well?
00;19;42;03 - 00;20;19;11
Gemma
No, mostly that. So, you know, gastroenterology as a hormone specialist, yeah, I ended up with this massive spreadsheet of my health history because it would become so fatiguing to me to share that each time on work with somebody. And so, yeah, eventually it became really clear to me. I think a real turning point and line in the sand was the gastroenterologist was probably one of the last specialists that I worked with, and I took a really strong compounded dose of antibiotics.
00;20;19;11 - 00;20;42;09
Gemma
And I can remember driving to pick up that prescription and thinking like, this is I don't know about this. Right, But it was expensive and I'd already put it in. And so like that people pleasing and that need to like keep the pace was coming up as well And I was like, well, I have to pay for this, and if I'm going to pay for it, then I have to try it.
00;20;42;09 - 00;20;43;25
Gemma
I'm not allowed to change my mind.
00;20;44;01 - 00;20;50;06
Filly
I was thinking, can I ask the antibiotics? Was that for SIBO? Oh, what were they trying to kill off?
00;20;50;10 - 00;21;10;09
Gemma
What was? Let's do this. Yeah. Yeah. And simultaneous to that, I remember thinking like, Yes, I've got the answer. And once I've taken these antibiotics, oh my gosh, I'm going to be unstoppable. All the things I'm going to be able to do and achieve like this is going to be the best, you know?
00;21;10;11 - 00;21;17;22
Filly
But he's like, no, you look at those spreadsheets you just created and all the things you want to tick off. No.
00;21;17;25 - 00;21;50;26
Gemma
Yeah. And so that's where, you know, I already was very unwell and struggling, but that's after that was when, you know, it got to the point where I wouldn't even know if I was going to make it through a day of work. Like my body was just obliterated from that. And yeah, I broke out in I don't acne had never really had any issues but like my entire face was covered in acne and then I well, actually this wasn't I still had to learn more because I went on antibiotics for three months for that.
00;21;50;26 - 00;22;17;03
Gemma
And this is what happened. I came off because my skin had cleared and all the acne came back and I was that was my moment of hang on a minute, but this is not working. And that's when I really started venturing down. I first, you know, yoga and nutrition was like my first few steps. I would go to the mat like the Queen Vic markets.
00;22;17;03 - 00;22;36;19
Gemma
I was living in South Yarra and in Melbourne at the time, and so I would do that every weekend and I would spend hours in the kitchen just like creating like whole food recipes and prepping my food for the week and became such a nerd in terms of like the bioavailability of foods and how they like nourish and nurture.
00;22;36;19 - 00;23;24;11
Gemma
And it was just one step after another from that. And it was slow. It was really slow for me. I was a slow learner. And then, yeah, as I became sicker and sicker, nutrition was definitely a core focus. Chinese medicine was really helpful to get my bowels moving again and clearing my skin a little bit and acupuncture, chiropractic was huge, really, really, really powerful for me in regulating the nervous system and to the point where I could walk into my chiropractors office feeling like I really just needed to, couldn't even sit up and wait for the appointment, and then I'd be able to go for a short walk afterwards.
00;23;24;13 - 00;23;35;16
Gemma
And then ultimately, yeah, the emotional work was, was the real game changer in the kicker for me for sure. Mm.
00;23;35;18 - 00;23;59;03
Filly
What I've noticed like for myself and also clients too is that like physique, all the physical stuff is still so important because we're still, we're physical being. So if we were eating McDonald's but doing mantras and like in a work, you know, like you probably only get to so much level of health maybe I'm sure there are people who could eat Mac as and they like completely healthy fat.
00;23;59;06 - 00;24;21;21
Filly
But what I found with me was that every time I, I tried something like lovingly physical was that my body responded lovely. Like it was like, thank you, thank you. We can see that you're trying to love yourself. You're doing an awesome job. You needed that. But then the symptoms would pop up again and again and again until it was like, Oh, hang on.
00;24;21;21 - 00;24;51;14
Filly
I'm not just a physical body. I'm like so many other levels and layers of myself, so it's so beautiful. So can we dig in to some of the work that you do with your coaching practice? So you really love working with high achieving women who you struggle with anxiety and perfectionism and resistance is what I guess like, why did you why did you choose that as your mode for healing with all the things that you've done?
00;24;51;16 - 00;24;53;27
Filly
Why was that thing?
00;24;54;00 - 00;25;22;19
Gemma
Yeah, it's a really interesting question because I thought I was going to be a nutritionist or a naturopath when I was recovering because up until the point where it wasn't, that was a thing that had moved the needle forward the most for me. And I loved it. And yeah, then I started like exploring and I was doing some work, were chatting online beforehand about a mutual contact of Tobi.
00;25;22;19 - 00;25;43;12
Gemma
I was doing some work for him in his business, more just like admin and marketing stuff as I was still recovering and healing and I'd done his program as part of my recovery as well and I just had a conversation with him and I said, you know, if I wanted to do more of this work or more coaching work, in your opinion, you know what?
00;25;43;14 - 00;26;14;04
Gemma
What would be the path forward for that? And that really just began to open up in terms of, yeah, understanding the nervous system, understanding the energetics and the the emotional body and the impact of that and that yeah, we can be doing all of these beautifully wonderful things for our physical body and emotional stress is going to put a cap on that every single time.
00;26;14;06 - 00;26;57;12
Gemma
And then when I went through my training, even just the so the intensive part where I was in the room for for two weeks, so much shifted and moved for me, like my physical health completely transformed in those days. And I just realised for me personally, there's nothing more powerful than being able to connect to a nervous system our body, our emotions, our intuition, our self, and decipher what is it that I need or what is this emotion that's coming up and asking for my loving attention so that it can be moved through and it doesn't need to stay stored in the body and create?
00;26;57;12 - 00;27;29;06
Gemma
You know, that stagnation that we were talking about before. And and I'm a big believer, too, in the holistic piece, and that's how I live my life. MM When I looked, you know, all the rituals or all, all the things that we can do to support sleep or to support our environments or to go to the farmer's markets and buy, you know, the spray free produce and even the relationships that we're choosing.
00;27;29;08 - 00;27;52;22
Gemma
Yeah, all of that, the mindset that we bring to that is the thing that really determines to a large degree, the success we get from it, right? Like, I can have a great bedtime, I can be putting lavender on the soles of my feet, you know, I can be digesting my food before I go to bed. I can have screens off.
00;27;52;22 - 00;28;34;12
Gemma
I might even be wearing blue blocker glasses. Right. But if I lay my head on the pillow and there's all this unprocessed stress or all this judgemental and critical self-talk or all these unfound emotions, the depth of rest is not going to be able to be accessed. And so that was essentially what I realised for me is it's the epitome of having more of every single thing that we want in our life is our ability to wholeheartedly know that when painful emotions and a dysregulated nervous system is coming up, that is literally our body communicating to us in a loving way.
00;28;34;14 - 00;28;51;13
Gemma
There's just something here to be looked at. Yeah, and the skills of most of us don't have the skills to do that. We're not it's not taught in school. Most of our parents were never taught that. So it's not even possible that they would have passed that on to us.
00;28;51;15 - 00;29;20;09
Chris
Mm. I love it. I love that saying like, we're always doing the best we can with what we've got. And sometimes we don't. We don't have a lot of emotional intelligence passed on from from our from our family. Some people do. Some people have a lot of well, a lot of experience in that in that way. I know I definitely didn't.
00;29;20;12 - 00;29;46;26
Chris
And and it took it took a bit of work that took the most most work for me growing up where athletics and sport and physical capacity was celebrated, honoured, you know, worshipped almost, it made sense that that taking care of my physical body as a strategy was the first thing. And I, like you said nutrition and yoga was kind of like your on ramp into this journey.
00;29;46;28 - 00;30;15;16
Chris
I think that that resonates with with me at least personally. And I think for for a lot of people it will. But then yeah, you can't have what you're not being given. You can't know what you've not been taught to know. We're always doing the best we can with what we've got. Eventually, if you've tried all the physical and you've hit the wall, maybe, maybe, maybe going down a different path, it might work more effectively.
00;30;15;18 - 00;31;01;05
Filly
Mm hmm. And I loved what you said before around sleep. You'd have, like, the perfect sleep schedule. But if you have these unprocessed emotions, then restorative sleep isn't going to be there. Same with digestion, every other organ that your body has. But it's also, I find a lot of people and I will put my hand up here perfectionist patterns also in the past where when I came into the healing journey and nutrition was my first, I guess like natural door opening into healing my body, but it was so rigid who was like, I got to do this anti Candida diet and I can't have sugar at all in except for maybe like one piece of fruit
00;31;01;06 - 00;31;26;18
Filly
or day for a whole six months. And I'm like, and to get the results I have to be 110% perfect, which I was, and weird like that. But it was stressful, like it was causing more stress on my system than if I had just eaten loosely and liberally and, you know, healthy most of the time. And Sorry. Yeah.
00;31;26;18 - 00;31;56;22
Filly
I find the mindset side of things when it comes. Like even if someone is only at that plane of physical healing, it can be so much more enjoyable. Easy flowful when you can come with that more flowful energy rather than forcing the to do list of being perfect with your lifestyle. Self connection and worth is a big part of what you do as well.
00;31;56;24 - 00;32;06;03
Filly
So how does this how does what does that actually mean? And how does someone start the work to reconnect?
00;32;06;05 - 00;32;34;14
Gemma
Yeah. Yeah. So I think the disconnection is present when we're taught it's not okay and he has this word again, like it's not safe because maybe we see a reaction or a response from a loved one or a primary caregiver or we're not seeing them behave in a certain way or use these coping mechanisms like it's not okay and it's not safe to feel painful emotions.
00;32;34;17 - 00;33;13;11
Gemma
Yeah, And when we're the good girl and we're pleasing and we're easy to deal with and we're convenient and we keep the peace, we receive love and we receive validation. And so I think that's the first place where without even being consciously aware, we're being taught or we're seeing, we're picking up and detecting signals that are shutting down the intelligence of our body and shutting down a connection to what is true for us is the best thing to do because it's not being reflected back to us that it's okay to do it in any other way.
00;33;13;13 - 00;33;47;20
Gemma
And so this disconnection starts off like, okay, well, that must mean that how I'm feeling is wrong and that I can't trust that. And that's not like the guiding force and that's not the lead. And so what I needed to Lana and what my work has become is actually that is the highest form of intelligence. When our body is giving us a sign and a signal, whether it's a painful emotion, whether it is a physical symptom, whether it is.
00;33;47;20 - 00;34;17;00
Gemma
Yeah, that that busyness in the mind, like the monkey mind, the obsessive thoughts, the the ruminating, that is the intelligence of the body speaking to us. And it's on our team. It's there for us. It's actually signalling it's a language of the body right? Can't speak English. And so it's communicating through these these ways that are uncomfortable and saying to us, please look at this.
00;34;17;03 - 00;34;47;14
Gemma
Yeah. And, you know, when we do look at where we're suppressing, pushing down, disconnecting from what is right for us, what is true for us, we get to we get to when we miss out, when we suppress it, but when we allow it to be there and look at it through this new lens, we beget we get to start cleaning it up and healing it, and we learn to listen to it.
00;34;47;14 - 00;35;10;28
Gemma
And when this space, you know, for us to get curious about trusting that we also get to see that we're not going to get stuck, we're not going to get washed away in it. It's not going to be our existence where we unpack and leave. And and, you know, there's no other version of life because the purpose of that pain showing up is to teach us, to show us.
00;35;10;28 - 00;35;36;12
Gemma
And when we come to that, you know, as a willing student and participant, we get the message and the pain can end because we've understood what it's there for. And, you know, I want I'll give some examples that might be, you know, there's actually a boundary that needs to be set now or a certain part of your lifestyle is really just not working.
00;35;36;12 - 00;36;12;14
Gemma
Well, you know, whether that is over working or overspending or over eating. Yeah. And when we learn the purpose, when we understand the message and those emotions can then release, we access confidence, joy, calm, excitement, vibrancy, vitality, energy to, then go and meet life in all the ways where we want to create. We create like the things that are more important to us than anything else in the world.
00;36;12;17 - 00;36;36;11
Gemma
And we become magnetic to that. It feels like, you know, for me, when I started this path, it just felt like things started landing in my lap. But it's a lot of deconditioning and programming because we were not taught. So it can feel really scary.
00;36;36;13 - 00;37;03;22
Filly
A signal that was pretty prevalent, that was chronic, and it will come up every now and then. When my unconscious state is like, You need to know something. Heartburn. And I love food. Like food is my life. I love all the good foods. And so that is really like old, old Filly annoying every time it came. Oh, so frustrating to have to go on a low histamine diet again.
00;37;03;22 - 00;37;28;20
Filly
What's going on? Radar now? The conditioning thing that you said, like my initial thought would be like, oh, frustrating. But then straight away it's like, Oh wow, my body is intelligent. Like my whole system is literally talking to me. Like, how incredible is that? Because so many people just get lost with I don't even know who I am.
00;37;28;22 - 00;37;46;10
Filly
What is intuition? Like, how do I follow it? And it's like we have these input like physical and emotional, as you were saying, signals that guide us. And every time you listen to that, my experience anyway, is that only good things happen like as you went through that. It's beautiful.
00;37;46;13 - 00;38;06;08
Gemma
Yeah. Yeah. Shifting away from this is happening to me. This is against me. This is in the way that I shared that before. How I saw my house was something that was in the way. This annoying hurdle to asking. Yeah. Like, what's this showing me? What's here asking me to look at? Hmm.
00;38;06;10 - 00;38;26;09
Filly
Yeah. So cool. Boundaries, big on communication and boundaries. How, why, why do you feel like they're important? Why do you think that part of the key to getting calm and happiness and connection?
00;38;26;11 - 00;38;50;00
Gemma
Yeah. Yeah. I love this topic. I honestly feel like there is no greater purpose for any of us being here than to learn how to express as who we are. And the connection piece that we've just talked about is, is a huge part of that, of, well, what do I need or what feels good to me or what feels off, what doesn't feel quite right?
00;38;50;00 - 00;39;26;14
Gemma
And like you said, Filly, almost like pulling that thread and that's only led to good things. Yeah. Is then actually using that intelligence that you've uncovered. And so, you know, it's one thing to feel the emotion and explore and get curious about it and hear the message that it's of give you. We're still just going to keep putting up against that pain and more symptoms and more challenges in life if we don't actually take that intelligence or that wisdom and implement it, embody it.
00;39;26;14 - 00;40;04;28
Gemma
And that's not that will often not feel easy. It'll feel really challenging, and particularly when it comes to our relationships, because I'm a big believer that when we speak our truth, which is often found in the body through our emotions, through pain, that we liberate other people to do that exact same thing where a permission slip and we learn more about, you know, who is able to love me and meet my needs in a way that feels deeply nurturing and who is not.
00;40;05;01 - 00;40;47;13
Gemma
And it's not about hierarchy or good or bad. But ultimately, you know, if there's something that's really true for me and authentic for me and important for me. So my values and I speak about that and I share that and I can't be measured in that in some of these close, more intimate relationships like inner circle relationships. I personally believe that that is so loving to release each other so that you can actually and sometimes that won't even be a complete closure of a relationship, but will just be an adjustment of the intensity and frequency of, you know, how much time you spend in that relationship.
00;40;47;13 - 00;41;22;25
Gemma
All so that, you know, they can live more in their truth and I can live more in my truth and invite other people forward as well. So, you know, healing primarily, Yes. In the first instance is all about us as an individual. But I believe it's it's way bigger than that. And that when we have healed ourselves and then when we can show up in the world as an embodiment of that, not as a it's like a dictator that is like a soft, gentle embodiment of that.
00;41;22;25 - 00;41;51;00
Gemma
We invite other people to do the same and to get curious about themselves and to see, oh, it's actually safe and okay for me to trust myself. It's safe and okay for me to say no, it's safe and okay for me to yet not have to do the perfectionism or do the people pleasing and communication and boundaries is a very, very key way that we teach others about that.
00;41;51;00 - 00;41;59;00
Gemma
We teach them how we want to be loved, but we also invite them into considering do they want to be loved as well?
00;41;59;02 - 00;42;10;03
Filly
So lovely. I feel like we've created some bounderies for ourselves for those agreements in our relationship.
00;42;10;06 - 00;42;11;15
Chris
It's important.
00;42;11;17 - 00;42;13;07
Gemma
Relations which.
00;42;13;09 - 00;42;41;20
Filly
Oh, said this, this like before we hit record. Gemma you know this that for the listeners we like our podcast to be so free so that you know for many reasons old Feely would have been way too embarrassed to say to Gemma, hey, because Gemma does like to drop some F-bombs if you guys listen to her podcast. And her podcast is also But I would have like my heart would have been pumping.
00;42;41;22 - 00;42;42;26
Chris
Thumping, pumping.
00;42;43;00 - 00;42;44;26
Gemma
Pumping my heart.
00;42;44;29 - 00;43;05;06
Filly
I would have been really nervous to even say that. And this is even as an adult, which is crazy. Whereas now it's kind of like, Oh, well, this is this is our show. This is how we want to run it. I know that Gemma will respect that. And you know, if not, it's goodbye. But, you know, it's just like it's being able to.
00;43;05;06 - 00;43;33;17
Filly
But the reason why I share that story is I know that in my nervous system, that I am happy to be who I am and I don't have to pretend I don't have to mask, I don't have to bend so that I can make someone else feel better or, you know, or to prevent contention. And I think back to in memory when I was a teenager, where I was at high school and all the kids were like, I swear I swear, Filipa, I swear.
00;43;33;18 - 00;44;12;12
Filly
But other than that and back then it was different because I chose not to, but kind of also because I wanted to be a good girl. But then having that pressure like that, actually that that memory, that event which happened multiple times, bullying was trauma to my nervous system. And so, and so the more that, like one can learn about themselves and who they are and who they want to be and to be able to feel comfort of all sharing who you want to be with other people and train and teach other people to treat you the way that you want to be treated.
00;44;12;14 - 00;44;27;02
Filly
Then it's like, great, everyone has a rapport. I have rapport with myself, my conscious mind, my unconscious mind, I have rapport with you and everything's like, you know, like life can feel easy and enjoyable and authentic.
00;44;27;04 - 00;44;53;05
Gemma
Yeah. And like, that actually feels trustworthy for me, right? Because I can tell you're being honest with me and you're being honest with yourself. And that creates a greater sense of safety, even if and this is definitely not true in this instance. But, you know, you mentioned before between yourselves, you've you've said some relationship boundaries and whatnot that can be really uncomfortable.
00;44;53;05 - 00;45;35;23
Gemma
And sometimes we don't like what the other person is asking from us or what their needs and when we allow ourselves to feel the dislike of it and to move through that and to get curious about why doesn't that feel good and to remember, you know, the ultimate outcome of relating, then as much as we might not like it in the first instance, and this I'm saying from my experience, and I'd love to hear if this has been true for you too, but I end up loving it because it's truth and it's honesty and that is safe.
00;45;35;25 - 00;45;56;17
Gemma
And it's also really attractive in a relationship as well. Yeah, like I can I feel more comfortable and more connected to you for you sharing that with me before we begin anything. And I'm sure there might have been some discomfort arising and I would have been able to feel that maybe, but I'm bound and like, Yeah.
00;45;56;20 - 00;46;19;01
Filly
Yeah, yeah. All 100% I remember Chris definitely went on there more inner work journey before I did and he came home. He's like, I want to change these chairs out, dining table chairs where like beautiful old antique ones that I found on Gumtree and like that was so special to me. And he's like, They're uncomfortable, I hate them, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00;46;19;04 - 00;46;44;14
Filly
Stormed in and I got so angry. And there were many occasions where Chris was trying to make changes that later on You explained Well, I want to sit at the dining table with my family and not be in pain. Those chairs are actually aggravating my back pain and I'm trying to heal at the moment. It took me a really long time to allow him to be who he wanted to be.
00;46;44;16 - 00;47;05;26
Filly
But as you saying, like like now it is more richer. And why this conflict? Because it's like, oh, cool. We are expressing something that you want right now because it's really important to you, you and you've thought and we both know each other now that we've thought long and hard about things that we bring to the table that we may or may not want to change.
00;47;05;28 - 00;47;33;20
Filly
And so now, you know, I mean, still sometimes there's a bit of like really I'm like, okay, yes, this is important to you, but it just allows like it's a nervous system. Again, it's just like, oh, we're safe. Like, we're safe in this relationship. Wherever it goes. Because when we know ourselves, then, as I said before, only good things can happen.
00;47;33;22 - 00;47;50;14
Gemma
And nothing is festering like or being swept under the rug that's going to explode at a later moment in time because you've got so much evidence that Chris comes to you with like what's important to him and you get the opportunity to work through it together. Yeah.
00;47;50;16 - 00;48;18;05
Filly
Still practising. Like sometimes things blow up. I don't know. I screamed at you the other day, but that's again a signal. Like it's an emotion. Old Filly would have been like, Oh my gosh, Psycho, what's going on? If I got anxiety again, it's like, No, it's just that something wasn't discussed. That should have been a I can't even remember what it was about or what it whatever it was.
00;48;18;07 - 00;48;29;02
Filly
And then like within 24 hours we've resolved it and it was amazing that, you know, sometimes I.
00;48;29;02 - 00;48;30;10
Gemma
I love that.
00;48;30;12 - 00;48;35;21
Filly
Still ignore all these little signs until they're like big.
00;48;35;23 - 00;48;38;12
Chris
And then explode.
00;48;38;15 - 00;48;42;14
Filly
Oh, All right. Did you have any other questions?
00;48;42;16 - 00;49;09;25
Chris
Um, no. I love that. I think boundaries are really important, but I think it comes from a sense of esteem and confidence that you can speak up to those. Those boundaries. Yeah. You said you were feeling feeling a few things and. And then you started to create those boundaries for yourself. And then we've, we've tried to do that as well.
00;49;09;25 - 00;49;35;11
Chris
I actually think boundaries are permission like have having, having a sense of self permission to, to speak up to this truth or genuine need that that a person has. And if you put that off, you're breaking rapport with yourself. You're kind of you're not listening to yourself. And then that's that's probably what leads to sickness and ill health.
00;49;35;13 - 00;49;52;10
Chris
Um, for a large part anyway, this somatic expression of, of internal mechanism to know, okay.
00;49;52;12 - 00;50;00;07
Filly
Last words of wisdom from you, beautiful soul yourself. How old are you, by the way?
00;50;00;09 - 00;50;04;01
Gemma
I always want to ask people what they think. That's all right.
00;50;04;04 - 00;50;17;01
Filly
Well, you said 30, 30, I know you must be in your thirties. You look like you look like you're in your twenties, but your maturity is definitely 30 beyond.
00;50;17;04 - 00;50;19;13
Gemma
Yeah, I'm 35. Oh. Oh.
00;50;19;16 - 00;50;27;26
Filly
Okay. Awesome. You have lived a you have lived an extraordinary life in your 35 years.
00;50;27;28 - 00;50;29;16
Gemma
Mm hmm.
00;50;29;18 - 00;50;56;20
Filly
So busy, busy people listening to these currently struggling with body burnout. And they've resonated with everything that you've said, especially around understanding those signals in the body. Like what? What would be the first step? Because even sometimes for people, that's really abstract. So what would you say if someone wanted to take this first step to actually start really connecting to themselves and take action?
00;50;56;22 - 00;51;18;03
Gemma
MM Yeah, I think a great question is what do I need to be able to do that? And then the follow up question from that would be how can I create that for myself?
00;51;18;06 - 00;51;21;07
Filly
Yeah, that's perfect.
00;51;21;09 - 00;51;25;08
Gemma
And that can look different every single day as well.
00;51;25;10 - 00;51;26;28
Filly
Yeah.
00;51;27;01 - 00;51;49;22
Gemma
And can be so, you know, one day that might be, Oh, actually I think I need some pen and paper so I can just get some of this stuff out of my head. Hmm. And another day, it might be okay. I think I'm actually ready to, like, find somebody that can help lead this with me and support and guide me through this.
00;51;49;24 - 00;52;15;09
Gemma
Um. Oh, I think I actually need to create some time in my calendar to be still, because it doesn't seem like when I'm running around and racing around and doing a million things at once and distracting that this space for me to connect in once say, yeah, the answer to that question will look like an evolution as well.
00;52;15;11 - 00;52;41;06
Filly
Yeah. And even as you're doing the work again, personal experiences, the question is an evolution too. It's like, Oh, pain signal comes up, what do, what do I need right now in order to understand this or solve this problem? And yeah, it's beautiful. Okay, so if our listeners would love to learn more about you getting in touch with you, we will pop in the show notes, a link to your website and also your Instagram page.
00;52;41;06 - 00;52;50;16
Filly
And you've also got a lovely, really helpful free download on your website as well. Did you want to. Yeah, yeah. That.
00;52;50;19 - 00;53;06;14
Gemma
So there's a guided worth meditation that your listeners can go and download and take a look at as well. And then yeah, the Instagram. Yes. And the podcast is yeah. The real source of all of my free resources.
00;53;06;19 - 00;53;12;17
Filly
Yeah. I love your podcast. I love you. Thank you so much for coming on today.
00;53;12;20 - 00;53;14;16
Gemma
I really appreciate it and stay fun.
00;53;14;18 - 00;53;16;06
Filly
So.
00;53;16;08 - 00;53;33;21
Chris
All right, thanks, Jennifer popping on. Stick around. Will have a bit of a chat, but thanks, everybody, for joining us for this episode and we'll catch you on the next one.
00;53;33;23 - 00;53;43;02
Filly
Thank you so much for listening. We so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love by sharing this episode, you.
00;53;43;02 - 00;54;01;00
Chris
Can also write your own state of burnout and the root Cause contributors by taking out ending body burnout assessment on our website. And if you're interested in learning about our group one on one ending body burn out programs should as a DM via Instagram or Facebook. Have the best day ever.
