00;00;01;04 - 00;00;38;25
Filly
Hello. It is Filly here on the ending body burnout show. I just wanted to do a quick announcement before we jumped into today's episode. Sorry. Last chance, guys. A loss chance. Doors are open for the ending body burn out method, but they close tonight. So if you have been listening or watching, seeing, reading all our bits and pieces about the ending body burn out method an and launch week or really month and you're finally keen to take the leap and get to the deepest root cause of your body burn out.
00;00;38;26 - 00;01;07;27
Filly
And finally, who your body for good for lasting results. Today is the last chance to join our ending body burn out method. Go down to the shownotes. You can press on the link. You can join right up from that link and get started with getting back your spark and having the body and the life of your dreams. We are so excited for all the people who have joined us so far.
00;01;08;00 - 00;01;33;29
Filly
So if you want in, today is the day. Today is also the day that you will get it at a ridiculously cheap our old beater prices. Next time when the doors open late November, prices will be significantly higher. So this is the perfect opportunity to dive in an antibody burn out.
00;01;34;01 - 00;01;47;02
Chris
Hello and welcome to the ending body Burn Out Show, where your hosts, Chris and Filly, co-founders of multi award winning Functional Medicine Practice, serving busy people with energy mood and got issues well.
00;01;47;02 - 00;01;55;00
Filly
Busyness, overworking, addicted, doing imperfection and ism might be the norm. It's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
00;01;55;06 - 00;02;08;00
Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic root, root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplements hoping something might stick.
00;02;08;00 - 00;02;23;24
Filly
So get ready to heal your body, get your spark back deeply, connect with yourself and step into the life of your dreams. Let's dive in.
00;02;23;26 - 00;02;52;27
Filly
All right. So I am so excited to dig into this episode today. Chris and I spoke to the amazing Damon Fraser. Damon is an award winning author of four books, Ted Speaker and Coach and the founder of the Insecurity Project. He specialises in providing thought leadership for entrepreneurs, leaders and business owners on the subject of eradicating hidden and unresolved insecurity.
00;02;53;00 - 00;03;33;22
Filly
He is widely recognised as one of Australia's best life coaches and a leading voice globally on the subject of personal insecurity. Damon was recently voted the best personal development coach in eastern Australia. Now Chris and I have been hugely influenced by Damon's work. I actually personally was coached by him for a good six months. He was a huge part of my puzzle for my own personal development and healing of my body journey, including when I have my set Burn burnout episode during COVID and all the physical healing work that I use.
00;03;33;22 - 00;04;05;10
Filly
Last time wasn't working this time. Damon helped me solve that, and we were lucky enough. Chris and I were also lucky enough to spend four days with Damon at Goulburn a couple of months ago. Getting further training in his transformational coaching processes, which has had a huge influence in our own work in the ending body burnout method and addressing deeper root causes around the beliefs we have about ourselves which dictate our behaviour, our body systems and our health.
00;04;05;10 - 00;04;29;17
Filly
And I know you are going to love this episode. It's going to be a different one. Damon is a different type of person. We're going to talk all things health with the lens of insecurity and self-loathing beliefs that you have about yourself being the deepest root cause of health issues. So buckle up. It's going to be a fun conversation.
00;04;29;20 - 00;05;00;09
Chris
Thanks for coming on, Damon. Super excited to have you on our anybody burnout show. Both Celine, I have enjoyed our experience of you. It's it's been eye opening, interesting and challenging, challenging my mind. I don't feel like I've been as challenged because I haven't had the same experience that you have had. But I've my experience of you been it's been cool.
00;05;00;10 - 00;05;21;29
Chris
It's been a cool vibe and a cool, cool journey, cool experience. But I think it would be cool to start off with diving straight into your area of expertise, which is insecurity. And for our listeners who might not be familiar with with what that term actually means, can you maybe start with defining that for us?
00;05;22;00 - 00;05;53;12
Jaemin
Insecurity Well, thanks for having me on the show to start off with. You guys are great and this will be a lot of fun. Insecurity, right? What does it mean? Well, it's the it's the fear that undermines us most dramatically. It's the fear that ultimately left unresolved leads to madness. So I think it's the thing that weakens human beings and easily an observed because people are insecure about being insecure.
00;05;53;13 - 00;06;16;07
Jaemin
So it's a hard thing to talk about. It's a thing that people would much prefer to run away from and not examine. So it takes some courage and a bit of counterintuitive willpower to walk towards the light and have a look. But when you do what you discover that insecurity is actually a fear that your worst opinion about yourself would be confirmed by others.
00;06;16;09 - 00;06;38;12
Jaemin
And we are most afraid of the things we think are wrong with us. And when we examine when those things first came into being, it's always in our childhood. So we come into the world fine, adequate, and where we get great feedback that we're enough, we're not performing, we're not in a transactional model, we're just being us and it's working fine.
00;06;38;12 - 00;07;04;08
Jaemin
But then at some point, as we age and go to play in the real world, it doesn't go well for us and we get embarrassed and think the reason we got embarrassed or disappointed us was because of us. So in our own sense making, we accuse ourselves of some limit or lack or inadequacy and then think it's true, lock it in, and then the rest of our lives sometimes cover and compensate that thing so that no one else finds out.
00;07;04;08 - 00;07;19;08
Jaemin
So that insecurity is if I was laid bare, you would say there's a problem with me, I'm insecure, I'm not safe in myself. So that's that's a nutshell about insecurity really is. MM.
00;07;19;10 - 00;07;41;15
Chris
Can I ask a follow on question. How did you get into, into this feeling And I know your story. What's, what's for our listeners who aren't aware of you and who haven't come across you before? How did you get into, into this and, and why did you latch on to insecurity as being the thing that you're on a mission for?
00;07;41;17 - 00;08;07;28
Jaemin
MM It's hard to know the answer to that completely because it kind of feels bigger than me, not even about, I mean, in some ways, you know, I feel compelled to talk about this, but my best guess around why it was this subject that has captured my attention most is primarily because I'm a pragmatic person and have an engineering bent to the way I see the world and I see things like I love structure.
00;08;08;00 - 00;08;40;18
Jaemin
So when I was first exposed to the coaching skill set, I just saw structure around human behavioural science, helping people understand why they did the things that they did, knowing that if they could understand why, then they that awareness would then equip them with more choice to improve that. And so when I learnt more back coaching with the aim of facilitating people to improve the quality of their lives, the structure of the things that was in the way, it was always limiting beliefs, behaviour and that was just the end of the assembly line.
00;08;40;18 - 00;09;05;23
Jaemin
That was just what is being produced by the factory, what we believe is true. And so the things that were in the way were always limiting beliefs and the worst of those self sorry, the worst of those as limiting beliefs were sort of limiting beliefs. So I thought, right, I'm going to engineer a better result. I have to pay attention to the base structure of this current result and that structure is formed as a belief.
00;09;05;26 - 00;09;28;16
Jaemin
So that was it for me. I went well to deal with anything else is to not create a predictable result. If I can get good at deconstructing and replacing this bedrock belief a person has about their identity, then I'm convinced that we could bring this all the way forward into their current result. So I think that's my best day.
00;09;28;16 - 00;09;36;07
Jaemin
And so just it made so much sense and I couldn't avoid what I understood about the structure of things. MM Cool.
00;09;36;09 - 00;10;08;21
Filly
I think I always talked to Chris after doing coaching with you and I'm like, What drew me to Jamun? I mean, there's lots of wonderful things about you, but I think it was that structure like breaking down it, the process and the structure of why we do the things that we do. And I came to you not around health, and I do want to talk about health, but I came because there were issues showing up in relationships, in business and finances, and just my inability to be able to relax into myself.
00;10;08;23 - 00;10;33;07
Filly
And I didn't think that it was an insecurity issue. But I remember what I was speaking to you on a podcast. I just started crying for like three weeks. I'm like, There's something. There's something to these. Like, there's something deeper that's kittiwakes. Three weeks, three weeks. I mean, I don't think it was 24 seven crisis, but it was enough for me to, okay, I'm going to write the book, okay?
00;10;33;07 - 00;11;02;07
Filly
I'm going to reach out. Let's do something about this. So I came into coaching with you, the other stuff in my life, but I also uncovered some insecurities that were affecting my health as well, which was just phenomenal because I felt like I'd done all the things I felt like. I felt like, okay, I think my health is like 80% or 90%, and I didn't really believe that I could get to that 100%.
00;11;02;10 - 00;11;27;03
Filly
And then you unlock some pretty cool things for me during the coaching process. So can you talk into how insecurity affects health? Because it kind of made Oh, sorry, I was going to say it kind of makes sense that insecurity affects behaviour. Like if you have dysfunctional beliefs about yourself, then behaviour is going to show up in that way.
00;11;27;05 - 00;11;31;25
Filly
Sometimes people don't really see how that shows up in health issues.
00;11;31;27 - 00;12;04;17
Jaemin
I think it's really obscure and hard to join the dots, but if you're willing to turn the lights on, I think the structure is very logical as well. So if you have these convictions that at your core it's a problem with you. If you're convinced that you've seen enough that you were there when it happened, when whatever went down, when you were a kid and it came off second best for you, and you're convinced the reason was because of a fault or flaw with you, then you must protect yourself from that being confirmed.
00;12;04;19 - 00;12;25;08
Jaemin
So then your best energy gets directed into proving and defending, covering and compensating. So therefore you have to be alert for danger all the time and the danger is within. There's a problem with you and you can't afford it to ever come out. So I run from the presupposition that the body craves health, that health is the default.
00;12;25;11 - 00;12;50;27
Jaemin
Our bodies are extraordinary machine and every cell is optimised for health. So I think unhealthy is is always a curious thing. And if you can examine the structure of it and see that potentially it's there for a reason and be curious around what that reason could be, there's a logic that says if health is the default, then when I have unhealthy it must be to pull me back from the edge.
00;12;50;27 - 00;13;16;25
Jaemin
It must be to get me out of the light. It must be to help me hard. It must be so that people are not looking. It must be to build an expectations of myself and others so I'm less likely to be exposed for the thinking that I'm trying to protect myself from. So I think in that way, unhealthy is a very loving strategy to cover and compensate insecurity and patterns of injury and illness, weird health stuff, things.
00;13;16;25 - 00;13;36;22
Jaemin
The doctor goes, I'm not really sure about that. The best we can do is medicate that. Yeah, I thought I talked about psoriasis on my podcast last week that, you know, doctors will very clearly say you'll have this for the rest of your life, Don't know why you've got it. Other than it's your own immune system fighting against it.
00;13;36;22 - 00;13;57;26
Jaemin
So if it's an autoimmune condition, we don't really know why, but we can tell it is and we'll give you some steroids to manage it. And yeah, I'm much more curious around, well then why is that doing it in the first place? And when you see unresolved insecurity there, then it's not safe to fully show up. It's it can't ever fully show up anywhere.
00;13;57;26 - 00;14;06;22
Jaemin
You must have strategies to protect yourself from being found. Bet on Health is one of the cleverest of those protection strategies the way I see it.
00;14;06;24 - 00;14;21;22
Filly
Can you share this story about the woman, the woman who had a chronic illness like years and years and years? Because I think that that story just summarises exactly what you're saying there.
00;14;21;25 - 00;14;24;00
Jaemin
Which woman?
00;14;24;02 - 00;14;35;19
Filly
Well, anyway, then take your favourite story and think about the one who he ends up the ABC relationship and then she's, Oh yeah, but you're welcome to share any story.
00;14;35;21 - 00;15;06;18
Jaemin
Well, so that's a good one because there's lots of fun moving parts to this. So this woman I got to do some coaching with and she'd grown up in a very, very conservative Christian world where, you know, no sex before marriage and marriages for life and she'd got divorced when she was 23 and had two kids already, or 20, 25 maybe with two kids.
00;15;06;18 - 00;15;32;19
Jaemin
And so her first attempt at marriage, the one and only thing you can't fail she failed at. And she was really, you know, felt very guilty and shamed about herself. And so so damage felt like everyone can see that there's a failure. She's a failure. And so and she got really sick and she then came back to the church that she'd grown up in.
00;15;32;19 - 00;15;54;23
Jaemin
And a young man a little bit older than her, fell in love with her, pursued her, and she vowed never to get married again. But they found a way through her defences and proposed got married and so she'd already been a bit sick. But on the day of her wedding she got really sick and was sick for 15 or 20 years since that day, the day of her wedding.
00;15;54;25 - 00;16;24;02
Jaemin
And so I did experience one five year period of being free from that. She felt like some people had prayed for her and God had rescued her from this condition. But then had found herself back in that condition and was when I was coaching her and still really sick. And it was so, so sick that her husband had had to not work and care for the three kids that they'd had put his life on hold to care for her.
00;16;24;04 - 00;16;43;04
Jaemin
So you'd think, Oh, that's just an awful it's an unfortunate situation. Doctors are saying she's got some weird thing that we can't control. And yeah, perhaps it's related to some kind of trauma in her past. But yeah, it is what it is and she doesn't want it, so if she could leave it, she would, but she can't and she's stuck.
00;16;43;06 - 00;17;19;17
Jaemin
So now I just kind of deconstructed that to say, Well, how is that working for her? I love that presupposition. We're going to do what works, still work perfectly. And so if it helps us, the default, how could you be unhealthy for that long? And what's the structure of that? So given her background around and the guilt and shame she felt for failing and the fact he'd already felt exposed and she'd blown her one good chance at this, and so she didn't feel like she deserved it and so could never really accept it.
00;17;19;17 - 00;17;40;13
Jaemin
Here was love on their doorstep. But I don't deserve love, so I can't ever fully show up to this. And what if I do fully show up to this and this man rejects me like my last it because the first husband was abusive and violent and she had to escape and flee that marriage. And so if I'm unhealthy, well then and really sick.
00;17;40;16 - 00;17;57;27
Jaemin
Even if he does reject me, he doesn't reject the real me. He rejects the sick me. So again, I insulate myself from being found out and exposed as lack of a lack of worth and love. So and even when some miracle happens and she's free from the sickness, it's like, I don't know how to be the healthy me.
00;17;57;27 - 00;18;18;26
Jaemin
I, I had to be the sick lay the sick me works the sick me has others care for the army has no expectation to function in the real world because the real world scary. I could get found out in the real world. So I'll take that sickness back. Thank you. And continue to hide from this. So yeah, I think I explained all the moving parts in that.
00;18;18;26 - 00;18;29;13
Jaemin
But a fascinating story. And when you examine the structure of things, you can see there's another way of thinking about sickness. Then some problem that we can't resolve.
00;18;29;15 - 00;18;58;16
Filly
Mhm. Oh my goodness. Ever since I will learn about that but also broke down the reason why I got sick as well and now doing it for clients is just like it's, it's there every time insecurity, it's just like oh my goodness. And sorry it's there. I think you call it the get out of a free jail card as well Like sometimes it's just a life is too hard.
00;18;58;19 - 00;19;14;09
Filly
I don't want to do the things because if I do and I fail, then it's going to expose this great insecurity, this deepest fear about myself. So I'll just stay with chronic fatigue or depression or anxiety or gut issues is a really interesting one as well.
00;19;14;11 - 00;19;34;02
Jaemin
Yeah, well, it is. It's like, well, I want to shower, but I can't. I've got this thing and I wish I didn't have this thing, but I do have this thing. And so it's the reason why I'm not performing at my best and I'm always tired and so don't expect much from me. And so there's that. But like I was I was speaking to a woman recently who was in a very she called it an abusive job.
00;19;34;05 - 00;19;55;26
Jaemin
So an abusive relationship was working in the government sector and being bullied like a really toxic culture. It was affecting her mental health dramatically. She was suffering greatly. And yet she was she felt she couldn't escape. She felt like. But I got to work. I got a mortgage and a kids. This is the only thing I could do.
00;19;55;26 - 00;20;20;01
Jaemin
And so I'm stuck in this relationship. So I said to her, and, well, here's here's the challenge. You find yourself in you. You are running the risk of PTSD right now because I formed my boss around this when we got to do work with in the Soldier Recovery Unit in Enoggera I, former business partner and I and the Army.
00;20;20;04 - 00;20;42;20
Jaemin
I've got a big problem with PTSD. Obviously, soldiers incapable of functioning, but the best I did was rubber stamped them. And we, our psychologist psychiatrist for the rest of your life. So they were interested in some alternate therapies. So we got to workshop some ideas, but the basic idea of PTSD being and broken trauma with self harm, so our broken relationship with self, broken rapport with self.
00;20;42;20 - 00;21;18;02
Jaemin
So a soldier doesn't make a good human, they're dehumanised as part of their training. Their their emotions are compassion and empathy and kindness are of no value to them in the army. And so the trained to just respond to command control. Don't think for yourself. Don't act out of your emotions. Be a soldier, not a human, which is great for wars, but not good for humans, because that human still objectively doesn't like seeing people killed, doesn't like bombs going off, does want to go home to their family, but cannot have any of those emotions.
00;21;18;05 - 00;21;37;13
Jaemin
And so eventually what we saw was that they would break the relationship with themselves because the unconscious did not trust a decision making. You're a crazy person. You were going to put us in this situation again tomorrow and the next and the next. I have bombs going off, people getting killed, You killing people, you almost being killed yourself.
00;21;37;20 - 00;22;05;01
Jaemin
This is crazy. And I can't seem to end and I don't like it. And so the fun of what the unconscious has available to it is the leverage of the physical system. Unconscious goes well, if you conscious mind are going to continue this crazy Decision-Making framework, I'll take you out of the gate and break down burnout, chronic fatigue injury illness so that you cannot be a soldier anymore because I can't have this.
00;22;05;01 - 00;22;27;24
Jaemin
I can't trust you. And so you're out of the game now. I've seen people experience the exact same thing in exactly the same way that this woman was talking about in her abusive job. You're telling yourself you must stay. Your unconscious will say, well, really? Because that's not going to work for me. That's a ridiculous scenario to stay in an abusive relationship.
00;22;27;24 - 00;22;44;23
Jaemin
So I'll get you out. You won't like how I'll get you out, but I'll get you out and it will be chronic fatigue. It'll be breakdown, it'll be burnout, it'll be severe physical illness. So you cannot work and you have a real reason why you don't have to go to your job because you weren't going to make a logical adult decision to go, I've got to get out of here.
00;22;44;23 - 00;23;07;10
Jaemin
And so the unconscious had to take over. And so that's another form of really severe weird health stuff that happens as a result of insecurity, because, again, the person who doesn't like the job doesn't think they're worth any other job or they're good enough or anything and can't be trusted with them. With that. So and it's pretty catastrophic if you don't resolve insecurity.
00;23;07;12 - 00;23;08;10
Jaemin
Yeah.
00;23;08;13 - 00;23;34;02
Filly
Huge. This my this kind of goes along with what you were just talking about so secondary gains so there's another NLP presupposition you are not broken you work perfectly I'm able to this the exact results you're getting, including your health issues or your level of health, is exactly what your system has designed. Now, that's kind of pretty harsh.
00;23;34;02 - 00;23;52;14
Filly
Like to say to someone if they come in and they've got all these health issues and they're completely burnt out, and then you say to them, Yeah, you created this, can you break break down that that presupposition because it's.
00;23;52;14 - 00;23;55;18
Jaemin
Yeah. Well first the only way I feel like.
00;23;55;18 - 00;24;04;15
Filly
Oh I just said because it's so like it's so good to understand that you are in complete control of what you've created and then you can create something you.
00;24;04;17 - 00;24;23;14
Jaemin
It's the most confronting conversation to have. And the only way I ever get away with it is in the judgement free space. So in my model around overcoming insecurity practice five is get help from someone who doesn't care about you. So I'm very clear that this I don't care like I'm not impacted by your pain. I don't need you to be out of a pain.
00;24;23;14 - 00;24;39;20
Jaemin
I'm not rescuing you. I'm not imposing my map of the world over you and telling you I'm right. You're wrong and you to do things my way. I'm serving you. If you're in pain, I would like to get out of it. Sure, I can help. Are you sure you want to get out of pain? Because the things you think are holding on to you.
00;24;39;21 - 00;24;59;08
Jaemin
You're holding on to them, by the way. So, like I can remember the first time I used that with a client who had depression, and I just said you had depression for 30 years. It's really suffering and finally feels like he's he wants to do something about it. And I just say, how is that not a problem for you to have depression?
00;24;59;10 - 00;25;19;22
Jaemin
Yes. Yeah. But it is a problem. Like, I hate it. It's ruining my life. I can't work through in my relationships. Yeah, Yeah, great. But how is that not a problem to have depression? It is a problem. Like, did you know we're not listening? Yeah, I've not heard that. Heard it loud and clear. But what I'm asking you is, how is a not a problem?
00;25;19;24 - 00;25;41;01
Jaemin
What's the benefits of having depression as an offensive question? And I just held that there. And I don't need not to be depressed. I'm just he said he wanted to let go of it and I'm just examine the fact that he's holding on to. And so finally we get to the point of the second, regain everything we complain about and tolerate everything we complain about and tolerate with.
00;25;41;01 - 00;26;04;21
Jaemin
Don't change must be rewarding us. It must be working for us. We're incapable of behaving without a reward. And so we finally discover that, in fact he's got this magic pocket and his back is magic card in his pocket that he can put on the table every time he's feeling nervous about his role as a husband, as a father, or as a friend, as an employee.
00;26;04;24 - 00;26;25;14
Jaemin
It's like, Oh, I've got depression. Did you know? I like the doctor said, I got depression. It's a real thing. I've got depression. Oh, sorry. You got depression. My bad. Let me. Well, sorry. Let me lower my expectations. You in this moment. So he could literally escape into himself for a week at a time with one playing of that card.
00;26;25;17 - 00;26;48;23
Jaemin
That's a brilliant card. You don't part with a card like that very easily. So we've developed this strategy to run and hide from the world. And the world lets you run and hide. So great strategy, but still a strategy. If he didn't have to run and hide from anything, he wouldn't need depression. So yeah, this idea of secondary gain, the things that you think are causing the most grief are not holding on to you.
00;26;48;23 - 00;27;12;16
Jaemin
You're holding onto them for a reward. And that reward is always around protecting you from the things you're most afraid of about yourself. This insecurity Todd hitting, but beautifully true. And until you see it like that, you'll think you're fighting something out there. When you've set it up like this, you've designed the system to protect you, and it is protecting you dysfunctional.
00;27;12;19 - 00;27;32;25
Jaemin
And it's against your values and it's hurting you and hurting others. But it is still doing things you set it up to do. Make sure no one finds out who you really are. Right. And so then, without examining who you really are, you probably will cling to this. That can be gained by the way that is functioned, but it's solvable if you can solve the insecurity.
00;27;33;03 - 00;28;01;10
Chris
Yeah, it's like emotional bubble wrap is the analogy that's running in my head. We create this buffer zone. This facade is not real. Like, really like it's a fictional story that we that we play out, isn't it? Like we make it make it work so hard to try and pretend that it is and it creates it makes us sick.
00;28;01;13 - 00;28;32;04
Jaemin
Well, this is the great irony of insecurity. It's all built on a work of fiction by a scared kid. So it's not like the tragedy is not the kids get scared and think it's they're implicitly involved that that's not the tragedy. That's unavoidable. And it's tough being a kid in an adult's world. Of course, you're going to assume that the reason those kids they want to play with you is because you're not as good as them or you're not going to avoid that kind of logic.
00;28;32;04 - 00;28;59;06
Jaemin
That's not the great tragedy. The tragedy is you get certain that you were right and don't review it, and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It becomes this narrative that you invest in and reinforce and leave. Is that always true? And then it becomes true for you. And so this whole world, all the personas, all the strategies, all the sickness to all to cover something that is a misunderstanding of a scared five year old boy.
00;28;59;09 - 00;29;21;16
Jaemin
It's a lot of energy going into protecting yourself from something you've never needed protecting from in the first place. That's the tragedy that people go out so much angst and so much fear. And this because it becomes it feels so real to them that they never go back and have the look after my life is spent coaxing scared kittens out from under a lands of milk gone.
00;29;21;19 - 00;29;24;08
Jaemin
Come on down, you're like, You're going to.
00;29;24;11 - 00;29;24;26
Filly
Say.
00;29;24;28 - 00;29;50;13
Chris
Kitty, kitty. I love that quote by I think it's Richard Bandler. It's never too late to have a happy childhood. Have you ever heard that one? I have a lovely that one. Yeah. It's it's a it's kind of like a softened down how you chose all this. It's kind of a softened down version of that where hey, I hear you, I get you.
00;29;50;15 - 00;29;56;25
Chris
It's never too late to have a happy childhood. We can go back and review. We can review this.
00;29;56;27 - 00;30;25;18
Filly
But my experience, though, is it's hard. Oh, yeah, it's hard because you've just created that. Your whole being, your whole structure is built on the lie. And so like, even fiction, even physiologically, you've created like so many neural pathways that take you down that, I mean, it's not impossible, but that's often why people don't do it, because it's just like, too hard, too scary, can't do it.
00;30;25;19 - 00;30;28;17
Filly
Not able to do it.
00;30;28;19 - 00;30;54;25
Jaemin
Mm hmm. Yeah, it is hard. And in the book I'm writing at the moment, I'm having my best go at describing the rules for the game of life. If life is a game and one of the rules to this game so that it's very hard exercise to do, to write the rules of the game of life, because they're all really the, I think, the real rules that very obscure.
00;30;54;28 - 00;31;13;09
Jaemin
And that's part of the fun of the game is that they're hard to find the rules when you do. It's breathtaking. I am convinced that one of the rules of the game is that the obstacle is the way. Well, let me let me give you two of the rules. So I think rule number one is life is unfair.
00;31;13;12 - 00;31;35;19
Jaemin
So that's stunning when you realise it's a part. And that's the rule. That's it's not a broken part of the game. That's the game. And most people never, never come to rule one. I just think, oh, it's really unfair. Like if this hadn't happened then I would be fine. But it did happen. It's really unfair and it's it's I am a victim of my experiences.
00;31;35;19 - 00;31;55;21
Jaemin
I didn't have a happy childhood. I had these things done to me and it's really impacted me like, yeah, did your art and it wasn't fair. Absolutely true. You did deserve better. Yep. Not a true word. Spoken. Oh, but did you realise that it is supposed to be unfair? Like who said life had to be fair? Where? Who taught you that?
00;31;55;23 - 00;32;21;17
Jaemin
Yeah, of course. It's unfair. You look around and you'll see great inequality. It's not fair. Not ever. Is it fair? And. But when you realise that, then you can't go. It's not fair. Then how does this game work? Oh, well, Rule two, it was. The obstacle is the way. What does that mean? Well, Marcus Aurelius, the stoic philosopher, said this said, Well, the thing that looks to impede your path, that impossible thing that obviously.
00;32;21;17 - 00;32;37;22
Jaemin
Well, that's in your right now, that is the way that really hard thing that you've been trying to get around or you're wishing are because this is in the way I can't know That's that's the actual path. The only path, the impossible thing You will have to do something in possible in this game, but it's impossible. Yeah, that's the fun.
00;32;37;22 - 00;32;57;18
Jaemin
But it's it's impossible. But you're a human, so every day humans do impossible things. That's the wonder of who we are. Yeah. We do things that are impossible, that have never been done before because we desire it. And in the process of doing impossible things, we find who we really are and what we're really capable of. And so it's kind of the hero's journey.
00;32;57;21 - 00;33;16;09
Jaemin
Hero always has to do something impossible. It's Frodo, like he's a little hobbit from the shire and he's going to take on the forces of Sauron and destroy the drink. That's that's an impossible plot. He can't do that. But I'm going to anyway. Are you there? Yeah, I am. Okay, well, now I'm watching Three Lord of the Rings movies to see what happens next.
00;33;16;16 - 00;33;37;01
Jaemin
If it wasn't impossible. No one's investing in watching that story so meaningful. So like I say, that's a big piece in the puzzle. Yes, it's hard. Yes. You would invest in the story. Yes. You develop a persona around who you thought you were to cover and compensated. And yes, you develop dysfunction and neuroses and all kinds of things.
00;33;37;01 - 00;33;58;01
Jaemin
It's hard and you probably won't even know you can review it and do human life. So that's a lot of evidence that makes it even harder. But when you go in the game, the game's built like that because when you do something that's impossible, you'll discover who you really are and you realise that the obstacle was the way that woundedness was the gift.
00;33;58;04 - 00;34;26;14
Jaemin
That hard thing was the very thing designed for you to become strong so you wouldn't want it any other way, even if you could have had it. So there's some, you know, some deep philosophy for our podcast, but I, I think that's a really key part in understanding how this works, because insecurity is a universal issue. Every single human who's ever lived and ever will live, none of them will make it out of their childhood without developing limiting beliefs about themselves.
00;34;26;14 - 00;34;43;24
Jaemin
And so if you think that's a problem with the game, you're off to a bad start. If you don't know that that's the design of the game that's built in, that's for I'll use your help. Okay. And it's really hard. Yeah, that's fair use as well. Oh, okay, great. Well then let's have a look at how this works.
00;34;43;27 - 00;35;05;00
Filly
That reminds me of a coaching session we had. I think I was crying. I cried a lot. I cry a lot. But I was like, Oh, this is so hard. I felt like I was getting somewhere and I was getting, like, great results. And now I feel like I'm back at square one and blah, blah, blah, blah. And you just said, Well, I think he said, Life is hard.
00;35;05;03 - 00;35;38;26
Filly
Life is hard. Like it's hard. No suffering. Life is suffering. You can either suffer towards what you want, you can suffer away from what you don't want or like get away from what you don't want. And that was so good for me because I'm like, I can do hard things. Well, if I'm going to do something hard, I might as well do something hard that's going to lead me towards what I want so I can be happier and healthier and have the life that I want, as opposed to continue being miserable under the.
00;35;39;00 - 00;35;40;25
Chris
You're pointing to Summit me.
00;35;40;28 - 00;35;41;20
Filly
I'm sorry, was.
00;35;41;20 - 00;35;42;15
Chris
That an unconscious.
00;35;42;15 - 00;35;43;21
Filly
Miserable.
00;35;43;23 - 00;35;44;28
Chris
Feeling?
00;35;45;00 - 00;35;47;19
Filly
Well, that was a big reason why I worked with Jamie.
00;35;47;21 - 00;35;48;14
Chris
He is doing it again.
00;35;48;14 - 00;36;02;00
Filly
You're really doing you're the most annoying person on the planet. And after. After I did work on myself, you worked? I'll try harder. You try harder to be annoyed.
00;36;02;02 - 00;36;05;27
Chris
Give it a go. I'll stand up to this challenge that.
00;36;06;00 - 00;36;22;22
Jaemin
You write about the hard things I like when you come to terms with the fact that yes, it'll be hard to do it with insecurity, but it'll be just as hard not to. And you kind of get over the fact that it's hard to survive. Throws a hard. Okay, so now I'm just choosing between the hard road, at least the life or the hard road that led to death.
00;36;22;24 - 00;36;29;28
Jaemin
Okay, well, I can stop complaining and just put one foot in front of the other and on the hard road that gets me out of here.
00;36;30;03 - 00;36;43;19
Filly
Yeah, Yeah. Okay. So your latest book, Jamie's got heaps of books, by the way. I'll pop a link to his website. Latest book is on self-discipline versus Self mission. Is that right? Yes, it.
00;36;43;19 - 00;36;44;13
Jaemin
Is.
00;36;44;15 - 00;37;16;15
Filly
So can you talk about that? Like especially in the health industry, I see a lot of people trying to self-discipline themselves to good health. So like restrictive diets, I don't know, like exercise plans, taking a gazillion supplements. And none of that is bad. But I do find that the energy that a lot of people are trying to get health and the things that they need to do, the hiding it like they're hard, hard word, hard again, I hate it.
00;37;16;17 - 00;37;26;06
Filly
And yet they thrash themselves to do the things that they think they need to do in order to get the result. What do you think about that?
00;37;26;09 - 00;37;52;09
Jaemin
Yeah, well, self-discipline is built off the insecurity problem because self-discipline works as your best energy against yourself to make yourself do the thing you wouldn't do otherwise. So that comes back to this fact. You can't be trusted. There's a problem with you. You're inadequate, you're silly, you're you're dumb, you're selfish. Whatever it is you thought was wrong with you back in the day, you're still living as though it's true.
00;37;52;09 - 00;38;17;05
Jaemin
You have to manage that part of you. And so it stands to reason then, that you will have to use your best energy to override your natural tendencies. Because if you don't, the worst part of you will come out and take over. So your only chance of getting ahead is true overall, hiding your natural tendencies. Now you can get away with that when you're young because you have energy to waste in your younger years.
00;38;17;05 - 00;38;40;05
Jaemin
So you don't need efficiency when you're young. You can steal from Peter to pay Paul. He can pull on orders. You can be unsustainable, you just bounce back. But mid life, you don't have energy to waste anymore. You're you're exhausted. And and I love talking to exhausted people because they're ready to rethink a bunch of things because their current strategy really is not working and they wish it would.
00;38;40;05 - 00;39;08;12
Jaemin
And they've dropped out of a million times and they're now ready, almost ready to go. Okay, yeah, this is not working. And it's a lovely experience to realise that there's a better way if you can break through this misunderstanding what's wrong with you and and uncover that it was all a mistake made by a scared child and who you are and who you really are, and developed beautiful, empowering beliefs about yourself and actually realise that your nature is good and trustworthy and does whatever the need to manage yourself.
00;39;08;14 - 00;39;30;14
Jaemin
And it's the body craves health that health anyway, then the natural tendency would be toward health, not away from it. So if you relax, you get healthier rather than if you relax, you get unhealthier. So the book I'm writing is the mechanics of how anyone upgrades from this energy against themselves. Self-discipline to energy with themselves, which is self permission.
00;39;30;17 - 00;40;00;17
Jaemin
It's a counterintuitive and kind of cultural idea. I think it's a really beautiful and important idea because if you're still trying to drive yourself from life with self-discipline, it's catastrophic. And it's so unkind If you've ever had anyone managing you like it's icky to have someone's mistrust and forcing and fighting and tricking and it's like it's it's so unattractive and so hard to be in that relationship with mistrust.
00;40;00;17 - 00;40;25;29
Jaemin
So to do that with yourself, to manage yourself, to jerk yourself, to fight yourself, or talking down to yourself at the time, feeling you cannot be trusted. It's not a fun way to be related to, especially if it's all built on a misunderstanding. So yeah, it's about really resolving that and making the necessary upgrades to your operating system so that you can work with yourself.
00;40;25;29 - 00;40;34;26
Jaemin
It is safe to be you in the world and you can have the things that you want, not by fighting against yourself, working with yourself.
00;40;34;28 - 00;41;07;18
Filly
It shows up so much in business as well and work like the way that people approach making money or getting ahead or, you know, even if they have a big purpose and a passion. I think that was a huge part of the puzzle for me as well, is that like I love, loved and also I love what I do, but because I always had this deep insecurity of being weakened, incapable, then I could never like I could never I could never go to bed at night feeling like I'd done enough where was almost like, Oh, the to do list didn't get all like ticked off.
00;41;07;18 - 00;41;36;27
Filly
And, Oh, father, I got to do this and this and this. And, and even when we would go on holidays or on the weekend, go to the beach with my kids, I couldn't relax because that DFA little Tiger running around inside of me that you know it's like it's unsafe. It's unsafe to relax. If you have this deep core belief that you're incapable at any point your business is going to like go bust and you're going to lose the house.
00;41;36;27 - 00;41;44;02
Filly
And like that is all the stuff that was going on in my unconscious, which was crazy.
00;41;44;04 - 00;42;04;21
Jaemin
Yeah. And I, I see that happen inevitably. If you haven't had these conversations with yourself, it creates this great pinch point of like your unconscious going, you're out of control. Like you want to grow, like you're already handling this, like you're hanging on by a thread here and you want more so it's not safe. Your success is not safe.
00;42;04;21 - 00;42;30;05
Jaemin
You need to upgrade your system. And we to have this conversation about who you think I really am and what what you believe is true. So that idea that you're the best, if you would actively resist you. So I would add a client at the moment who is consistently earning 20 to 30 K a month a knows they're capable of 170, 100 and 330, like there's 100 grand missing from their monthly income.
00;42;30;05 - 00;42;50;29
Jaemin
They know it. Yet no matter what they do, they can't get through there. And so they just think it's a self-discipline. I've got to fight, I've got to force, I got to be better. I got to do more. Just got to get it done. And I'm saying, no, the best of you, it's got the handbrake jammed on is pulling fuses out, is sabotaging you, is trying to ruin your growth.
00;42;50;29 - 00;43;15;16
Jaemin
So you do not get there. Because if you get there without upgrading any of this, this ends in tears. Like you want to add more pressure to the system. You're already got seven red flags. That would be that would be chaos. So the kind of step back. Oh, hang on a minute. The best of me is I could be upgrade the operating system, could be deal with trust and neediness and understand the game and restore this relationship.
00;43;15;16 - 00;43;37;04
Jaemin
That was so There's a place of deep safety within resolve, the insecurity. So you're not obsessing about what others think about you all the time and always feeling like you're an imposter and all your best energies going into proving and defending yourself. Like surely you can see that that's a and conversation to have and make those upgrades. Now your energy to invest in growth.
00;43;37;04 - 00;43;51;27
Jaemin
Now it's safe to gear up, to scale up to stand out because you've got safety locked in internally. So now the handbrake comes comes off full permission to succeed. Yeah. Go do the thing that you know, you're capable of because now it's safe.
00;43;51;29 - 00;44;14;07
Filly
Yeah, it was like I knew I knew intellectually that you could work less and make more money, but I didn't unlock to that into I can't even remember how long it was until we were doing coaching together. And I'm like, this is weird. Like, I open up our profit in loss and I'm like, How are we making more money?
00;44;14;07 - 00;44;37;27
Filly
And I actually feel like really relaxed and calm and like, I'm doing less. Like what is what is this magic that's going on here? But it was just like the energy, not even the energy to be able to be more productive or to make clearer and better decisions. But I think it was just the conversations that I had with people, the way that I started showing up differently that no one else probably really noticed.
00;44;37;27 - 00;44;46;21
Filly
But like that energetic shift change changes when you can back yourself.
00;44;46;23 - 00;45;12;07
Jaemin
Yeah, well, it becomes safe now. Like, I think that's the simplicity here. It's safe to earn more money because now you're not doubting that you deserve it, doubting that you are worthy of doubting that you're capable of sustaining it. So to saved more money. The same with health. Like I say to people who are being so desperate to fight against themselves to get health and they're still battling extra weight or sickness, I say, Well, what's dangerous about being attractive?
00;45;12;13 - 00;45;32;04
Jaemin
Clearly it's not safe to be healthy, which seems so strange to. Say, but it's the only logic. Yeah, until it's safe to be attractive, you will be unattractive. You will hide your light. You will not show up at your best where it matters most. But as soon as there's nothing to prove and defend anymore, you've got your brain back.
00;45;32;04 - 00;45;56;11
Jaemin
You trust who you are. It's now safe to show up and secure. People are attractive people because why wouldn't they be comfortable being in the light? They're comfortable sharing their gift with the world to do that. You've got to be seen. You've got to be heard. You can't be hiding away. So that whole safety piece is massive. And ultimately that's the permission conversation.
00;45;56;11 - 00;46;20;27
Jaemin
You don't have permission because it's not safe. As soon as it's safe, you're what's a natural progression. The more money, the more health, the better relationships into the things that you desire. Because, of course, you know you're capable. You've always been capable. That's not the problem. You've just been directing all your best energy into covering and compensating for a story you told itself about who you really are when you were a young kid, and you've never resolved that.
00;46;20;27 - 00;46;28;20
Jaemin
So that's the tragedy of insecurity. It just gets in the way of good people trying to do good work in the world, and we all miss out there.
00;46;28;27 - 00;46;53;28
Filly
It reminds me of a coaching conversation I had with someone recently around Weight, like really struggling to, you know, do the things to lose the weight as well. And it's just like, oh, it doesn't make sense because I desperately don't want this. And then uncovered that when she lost a bunch of weight, she got married to a good guy who ended up being a bad, bad guy, cheating on her with lots of people.
00;46;54;00 - 00;47;17;19
Filly
And then got divorced or split up, put on all the weight again. And now she's in a loving relationship. But there's like a deeper fear that, Oh, if I'm thin one, when I had that experience, I got rejected and hurt. And then what if this happens again, being thin when I'm at my most beautiful and I'm rejected, then what does that look like?
00;47;17;19 - 00;47;26;18
Filly
What does that really mean about me kicking the gut? And that's really a common theme, I think, too. With weight.
00;47;26;20 - 00;47;51;12
Jaemin
Yeah, it's useful to really examine that insecurities, what we think about us, not others. That's the misdirection people get. So concerned with. I don't want others to reject me. You're afraid that people will hurt me. People like me, people will judge me. You're not afraid of that. You just don't want what you think about you confirmed by anybody else You're most afraid of.
00;47;51;12 - 00;48;07;18
Jaemin
What you think about you, not what they think about you. You just don't want it confirmed. That's all we're talking about here. So therefore, you control all the moving parts. Because if you're frightened of what's out there, then you've got to control everybody else. You've got to constantly obsess about making sure they do like you and they do accept you.
00;48;07;18 - 00;48;27;00
Jaemin
And they don't judge you. Yeah, which is a very tiring and you know, Endeavour and unsustainable bulls. QUEST Really? So you sort of come back to this idea that you're the storyteller, you're the one who decided there's a problem with you. It's your job to review it if you got it right and to set yourself free.
00;48;27;02 - 00;48;38;21
Filly
Okay. One last question. How do you because I know you have a different type of lifestyle. How do you keep yourself healthy, happy, clean relationship with yourself?
00;48;38;24 - 00;49;07;11
Jaemin
Well, I don't keep myself. I just am happy and healthy. A subtle form of management. I don't have to keep myself. I am because why wouldn't I be? I love life. I am alive. I am life like it's I am able to show up here at my best. It matters most. So that's that ends up being very healthy and there's no reason for it to be anything other than that.
00;49;07;13 - 00;49;11;00
Filly
Yeah, I like it.
00;49;11;02 - 00;49;12;02
Chris
Being.
00;49;12;05 - 00;49;40;20
Filly
Awesome there. Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm going to pop in the show notes. If anyone has found this even remotely interesting, I'm sure that everyone's found it very interesting. Unhindered book. I'm going to pop a link to Jasmine's unhinged book in the show notes because it is awesome. Such a good book, so many punchy beats and you go through in that book too.
00;49;40;20 - 00;49;44;05
Filly
How to solve insecurity in your seven steps.
00;49;44;08 - 00;50;01;02
Chris
Yeah it's a it's a read multiple times book for me. I don't know if you can see on my bookshelf, it's kind of blurry. I've got some books that are horizontal and some that are vertical. The vertical ones get referred to occasionally, but the horizontal ones are like very regular.
00;50;01;05 - 00;50;01;29
Filly
All Jamie's.
00;50;01;29 - 00;50;05;18
Chris
Books, yours, yours is the horizontal.
00;50;05;20 - 00;50;20;02
Jaemin
Line. Well, that's great. And, well, it's the predictable process. It's how anyone has ever resolved insecurity. Seven Essential Practices. So my first job was to sort of myself out of the overflow of that, to create a model and framework that others could use as well.
00;50;20;05 - 00;50;24;02
Filly
Yeah. Okay, awesome. Thanks so much for coming on.
00;50;24;07 - 00;50;25;26
Jaemin
We thanks for having me. That was a lot of fun.
00;50;25;26 - 00;50;35;26
Filly
So I appreciate you. And yeah, check out Jason's latest podcast, which might be like a month away or behind. By the time that this one's out.
00;50;35;29 - 00;50;36;27
Chris
It's like a time for.
00;50;36;27 - 00;50;47;08
Filly
An autoimmune condition and whether you can or cannot eat gluten, it's a good one. It's a good one. All right. Well, Sam, thanks.
00;50;47;08 - 00;50;48;18
Chris
Jasmine.
00;50;48;21 - 00;50;55;02
Jaemin
Thanks, guys.
00;50;55;04 - 00;51;04;14
Filly
Thank you so much for listening. We so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love. By sharing this episode, you.
00;51;04;14 - 00;51;22;10
Chris
Can also write your own state of burnout and the root Cause contributors by taking out ending body burnout assessment on our website. And if you're interested in learning about our group one on one ending Body burn out programs, shoot us a DM via Instagram or Facebook. The best day ever.
